None of us know what will 100% happen aep but we do know a few things will happen

[EckoRomeo]

Gosh can you imagine how much it would suck if they surpassed commissions on DSNP plans?

It seems like the MA business was built upon the back of the insurance agents, and now the carriers are pointing the finger at the agents (including uplines), as the cause for the high costs to manage care. It does appear that they are dabbling in the plan suppression, non-commissionable plans.... where does that path lead?

What is the end goal? They remove the agents, and keep the extra revenue? Or, they remove the agents and still can't figure it out, and they exit the market entirely? Id imagine UHC will just try to outlast the others, and then gobble up all the business, without needing to pay agent commissions.

I don't see it that way at all. Carriers PREFER independent agents. Last year carriers cut employee head count, and cut plan benefits. Agents were the least affected by market turmoil. Beneficiaries and employees suffered more. Carriers have increased spending on independent agents much more than they have on growing their internal sales channels. Carriers are being sued for OVERPAYING agents!

I just don't see this mass effort to eliminate agents.

They aren't going to pay us to sell unprofitable products (who would?). And right now, because of regulatory changes, PDP's are losers for carriers. I think, all things considered, carriers have demonstrated that they are very committed to independent agents.

 

[GoPokes]

That would be illegal for them to do unless it's $100 or less.

Is it against the rules, or against the law? Seems like a lot of rules are broken, before there is a legal penalty.

Why couldn't an LOA agency pay an agent whatever they want, on a plan, as long as it's under the max allowable?

 

[MedicareWAA]

Word on the street is Chapter pays its agents full commission on all non-commissionable plans. Makes me wonder if ole' Vivek knew all about this and they don't mind blowing cash like crazy because they'll end up smelling like roses when the dust settles. Not what you know but who?

That would be illegal for them to do unless it's $100 or less.

They can pay their W2 agents whatever they want. There is no $100 cap.

I find this hard to believe but if it's true, great. We need more brokers with the integrity to do it. My suspicion is that while they might pay agents when they recommend a non commissionable plan, they are pushing hard behind the scenes to limit the number of times that happens. I hope I am wrong.

 

[EckoRomeo]

I think it's funny that CMS believes a carrier paying us more than set limits jeopardizes beneficiaries ability to get object advice but don't see the same conflict with plans that pay nothing.

If a broker's recommendation is influenced by a $75-100 difference in commission how are they not influenced by a difference of $600?!?

 

[LostDollar]

Caveat, not an insurance agent. ( I am a social security recipient and Medicare Beneficiary)

Re: Chapter.

I have not researched Chapter. I do not know if the Chapter I will mention below is the same Chapter you all are referring to.

Comments below based on hit and run youtube scanning only.

There is a youtube presence named Dr. Ed Weir. He states he is the former manager of the (x-th) largest Social Security office in the country. (I think he said 3rd but don't remember for sure.)

He does YouTube presentations on Social Security, answers questions, and refers people to Chapter for further help with situation specific details and assistance for Social Security and Medicare.

 

[GoPokes]

Came from a VERY reliable source. They're playing the long-game for sure with all the cash they're putting out and their business plan is total domination. My gut is telling me the Vivek variable was privy to knowledge. Pure speculation.

I did a little open source intel dive on Chapter. I am betting your source is correct. They appear to have grown very quickly in the insurance business, it's a little shocking.

Two Wharton grad school buddies, jump into the insurance business, get licensed in 2020, raise a bunch of money quickly, get Ramaswamy involved (co-founder title), and investors like JD Vance and Peter Thiel. Thiel was on the board until recently.

They look a lot like other call centers, not in the sense they are doing outbound calls, but they are doing sales over the phone. They don't appear to be doing anything revolutionary. It is sort of surprising that they were able to jump into the medicare space, when other call center models are struggling. I can imagine they throw in the "AI" and the investors got excited and jumped on board.

One of the co-founders did defend the local brokers, in a statement to the senate finance committee. Saying "The bad actors are typically not local brokers who live and work in each community."

They appear to saying a lot of the right things, and im confident having the VP of US as an investor, can only be helpful.

The website says "every carrier, every plan" but when you look at the companies the co-founder is appointed with, its is not every carrier. It appears to be all the major carriers, but im not seeing the regional. (I only looked at a few states, that I am most familiar with.)

They claim to compare thousands of plan options for each prospect... im fairly confident there are not actually 1000+ options for each prospective client...but of course that might just be some marketing jargon... but we are in a space where we have to watch what we say...

At the end of the day, I just don't see how they are doing anything that different than the others that came before it. They are using "tech-driven enrollment, AI, and agent concierge style enrollment."

How is this different than current model? It sounds and looks like the same thing we currently do, but with fancy new lingo, to make it sound sexy. We currently use agents, as a "concierge" and we use tech (computers, enrollment comparison software) to compare providers, prescriptions, and priorities... Just add in "AI"

Now, if these other call centers that are in the hot seat, don't survive, that would probably benefit an outfit such as Chapter.

It sort of sounds like chapter also wants to play a role in the medicare plan finder, but that is me reading between the lines.

 

[sman]

Awesome breakdown and info, thank you for putting in the work on that! I'm doing some digging on my end for other reasons, we can chat about it sometime if you're interested with what I come up with.

Please don't take it offline. We can all benefit from your findings.

 

[MRW62]

I did a little open source intel dive on Chapter. I am betting your source is correct. They appear to have grown very quickly in the insurance business, it's a little shocking.

Two Wharton grad school buddies, jump into the insurance business, get licensed in 2020, raise a bunch of money quickly, get Ramaswamy involved (co-founder title), and investors like JD Vance and Peter Thiel. Thiel was on the board until recently.

They look a lot like other call centers, not in the sense they are doing outbound calls, but they are doing sales over the phone. They don't appear to be doing anything revolutionary. It is sort of surprising that they were able to jump into the medicare space, when other call center models are struggling. I can imagine they throw in the "AI" and the investors got excited and jumped on board.

One of the co-founders did defend the local brokers, in a statement to the senate finance committee. Saying "The bad actors are typically not local brokers who live and work in each community."

They appear to saying a lot of the right things, and im confident having the VP of US as an investor, can only be helpful.

The website says "every carrier, every plan" but when you look at the companies the co-founder is appointed with, its is not every carrier. It appears to be all the major carriers, but im not seeing the regional. (I only looked at a few states, that I am most familiar with.)

They claim to compare thousands of plan options for each prospect... im fairly confident there are not actually 1000+ options for each prospective client...but of course that might just be some marketing jargon... but we are in a space where we have to watch what we say...

At the end of the day, I just don't see how they are doing anything that different than the others that came before it. They are using "tech-driven enrollment, AI, and agent concierge style enrollment."

How is this different than current model? It sounds and looks like the same thing we currently do, but with fancy new lingo, to make it sound sexy. We currently use agents, as a "concierge" and we use tech (computers, enrollment comparison software) to compare providers, prescriptions, and priorities... Just add in "AI"

Now, if these other call centers that are in the hot seat, don't survive, that would probably benefit an outfit such as Chapter.

It sort of sounds like chapter also wants to play a role in the medicare plan finder, but that is me reading between the lines.

Great insight and thanks for sharing. From what I've seen, Chapter looks like a new kind of FMO model. It flattens the structure of using agents under a centralized, tech-driven platform. It could be a shift from the traditional uplines and reshape how agents and FMOs work together.

 

[Ron Van D]

Pokes and Horns collaborating cain't be good! Just sayin'

Boomer Sooner!

 

[Todd King]

They can pay their W2 agents whatever they want. There is no $100 cap.

I find this hard to believe but if it's true, great. We need more brokers with the integrity to do it. My suspicion is that while they might pay agents when they recommend a non commissionable plan, they are pushing hard behind the scenes to limit the number of times that happens. I hope I am wrong.

On second thought, I suppose they are W-2 agents and not 1099 agents. Therefore, I guess they can pay them. Their loss though!