64 Yr Old Simplified Issue

[CFP83]

Hey guys, I have a 64 year old who is currently in underwriting with several carriers and because of serious heart issues 2-3 years ago, it doesn't look like we're going to have any luck in the medically underwritten world.

In the simplified issue realm, what is the most amount of coverage we can get in this situation? Anyone go up to 200k permanent on a 64 yr old simplified issue? How about an ROP term product? Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[dgoldenz]

What kind of heart issues? What carriers have you looked at?

 

[SportsNut]

No, not 200K in one policy, with a heart problem 2-3yrs ago.

It would help if you mentioned the specific types of medication involved, as well as the actual treatment and when last treatment was administerd. Someone could tell you, YES, so and so can issue that, until they learn what the challenges are. It simply will save you a lot of time in evaluating this, if it is truly possible.

The most that I know of is 75K face.. of course you could get a handful of policies to equal the 200k, if need be. You are talking some jingle to get that done though, even if insurable. You are looking at somewhere between 45 and 90 per thous, depending upon M/F and Smok-n/s. All whole life rates so there is built in ROP, sort-of.

 

[CFP83]

No, not 200K in one policy, with a heart problem 2-3yrs ago.

It would help if you mentioned the specific types of medication involved, as well as the actual treatment and when last treatment was administerd. Someone could tell you, YES, so and so can issue that, until they learn what the challenges are. It simply will save you a lot of time in evaluating this, if it is truly possible.

The most that I know of is 75K face.. of course you could get a handful of policies to equal the 200k, if need be. You are talking some jingle to get that done though, even if insurable. You are looking at somewhere between 45 and 90 per thous, depending upon M/F and Smok-n/s. All whole life rates so there is built in ROP, sort-of.

Thanks for the feedback Sportsnut....

the gentleman had a quadrouple bypass 2.5 years ago then a heart attack a year later!!

 

[dgoldenz]

Have you tried submitting a pre-screen to various carriers? He might be able to get a T6-8 possibly depending on recovery since, but the premiums won't be cheap.....$12-18k/year if he's a non-smoker for $200k UL. Does he have any policies in force now?

 

[CFP83]

Have you tried submitting a pre-screen to various carriers? He might be able to get a T6-8 possibly depending on recovery since, but the premiums won't be cheap.....$12-18k/year if he's a non-smoker for $200k UL. Does he have any policies in force now?

Unfortunately he does not have any insurance in force, his level 20 policy expired four years ago! Oh yeah, "buy term invest the difference" that a great short-term solution to a long-term problem. This guy would love to shoot the salesman who told him that 24 years ago

 

[GreenSky]

Unfortunately he does not have any insurance in force, his level 20 policy expired four years ago! Oh yeah, "buy term invest the difference" that a great short-term solution to a long-term problem. This guy would love to shoot the salesman who told him that 24 years ago

Guess he should have bought more insurance 4 years ago before he had the heart problems.

Don't blame the insurance salesman. The client was not responsible enough to take care of this when he should have.

Why is it that everyone is looking to blame someone else when they are the ones that a really at fault?

Rick

 

[dgoldenz]

If you'd be interested in working a split, we could try to place an underwritten case for him (assuming he's not uncomfortable working with another agent). We've done many impaired risk cases like this in the past, but he may get sticker shock when he sees the premiums.

 

[CFP83]

Guess he should have bought more insurance 4 years ago before he had the heart problems.

Don't blame the insurance salesman. The client was not responsible enough to take care of this when he should have.

Why is it that everyone is looking to blame someone else when they are the ones that a really at fault?

Rick

I agree totally about us being a society of people passing the buck, everyone wants to blame everyone else anymore and not admit they messed up. Do you sell a lot of term insurance yourself?

How many hours a year do you think the average american spends thinking about life insurance? Not everyone is "insurance geeks" like us. We all know by now the life insurance is sold not bought. The only caveat that I would ad to your comments is that I'm just of the school of thought that when this agent was sitting down with this gentleman 24 years ago IT WAS HIS JOB to talk about conversion opportunties in the future as well as to follow-up regularly to talk about conversion. Now this gentleman is extremely frustrated with the agents looking back on things because he previously owned permanent life insurance through NYL and his agent talked him into GETTING RID OF IT and buying term and investing the difference...you know one of those Primerica types--disciples of A.L Williams.

At the end of the day, when I go to my doctor I put my complete trust in him to recommend the SUITABLE solution for my current situation. I believe we have a fiduciary responsability to always do what is in the clients best interest. I believe that many times term life insurance is the right answer....at that particular point in time. Term life insurance isn't created to be a long-term solution though hence the name term. Term protects you IF you die, permenant protects you WHEN you die.

I understand your point of every man is responsible for his own actions, couldn't agree more. I also see my clients standpoint that his "advisor" gave him unsuitable, lousy advice.

 

[SportsNut]

I'm just of the school of thought that when this agent was sitting down with this gentleman 24 years ago IT WAS HIS JOB to talk about conversion opportunties in the future as well as to follow-up regularly to talk about conversion. Now this gentleman is extremely frustrated with the agents looking back on things because he previously owned permanent life insurance through NYL and his agent talked him into GETTING RID OF IT and buying term and investing the difference...

So where are his investments...? did he or didn't he make those, or was that the agents fault too...?

How many times is this very fact explained to clients... about future insurability and conversion, and they could care less because they think they are bulletproof and will always be able to buy whatever they want. When they suddenly can't, then it is someone else's fault.

I woud say you took the bait there CFP, hook line and sinker... about the clients fish tale.
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Thanks for the feedback Sportsnut....

the gentleman had a quadrouple bypass 2.5 years ago then a heart attack a year later!!

Most final expense policies are going to require that he be 2 yrs away from any type of HA, angioplasty or other such invasive proceedures. So te 1.5yr ago HA is a decline... 6 months out, if he stays clean and isn't taking certain meds for angina and the like, he could qualify then.

I would bet against any fully u/w plan being issued, even at a T-8 and beyond. There simply isn't a company out there that needs the premium that badly, including AmGen'l. Using 2 events, the by-pass being one event, then the HA one year later being the second event, renders him uninsurable for fully u/w carriers. Obviously a whole lot more to it than that, but 2 events and you will lose the interest of many cos that otherwise would have at least looked at the case.