401K Lost, Any Idea how to Find It?

SS tells her that she may have some retirement befits from a company called "Dryden

How did SS know this? I realize asking for help from SS could be a wild goose chase but since they raised the issue there must be something in their files that shows this . . . such as old W-2's.

I don't know if you can get copies of old W-2's from the IRS or not, but that is also worth a shot. Qualified plan participation is one of the boxes on your W-2
 
How did SS know this? I realize asking for help from SS could be a wild goose chase but since they raised the issue there must be something in their files that shows this . . . such as old W-2's.

I don't know if you can get copies of old W-2's from the IRS or not, but that is also worth a shot. Qualified plan participation is one of the boxes on your W-2

Yep. W2s or Tax Filings for the ESOP.

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ok, sorry i haven;t responded sooner, and thanx for the help guys, i read all your posts and did some more fact finding, and this is what I have come up with thus far:

- Did the form 5500 search. nothing
- looked at the state lost property site, Found $200, but not related to her 401k (but still a nice find :-) )
- This next part gets a little complicated so I need to walk yall through the timeline (and this part makes me wonder if she ever really "owned" the money per se:

-In 1980 she started working at Dryden, and at the time they gave the employees an ESOP (Employer Stock Option Plan). When I asked her if she remembers setting up and 401k or contributing to it she tells me "no, but..."
- In 1984 she leaves the company
- In 1990 the company decides they dont want to do the ESOP plan any more, and want to set up 401Ks for the employees, and decide to buy out the employees.
- The custodian for the 401k was 'Great Western'
- In 1992 my mother in law comes in contact with someone at Dryden, and they say to her "oh, we were trying to locate you..." she gives the lady her new address, but does not remember anything else about the conversation.
- In 1998 the company was merged with an Ohio company called "MPW Industrial Services Group". At this point the custodian of the 401ks, Great Western, was no longer the custodian. The custodian at this point was Merril Lynch.
- In 2010(ish) she tries to sign up for S.S. and SS tells her that she may have some retirement befits from a company called "Dryden Engineering Company inc." (which started this whole thing apparantly) SS sent her papers, that on it say "year reported: 1984"

None of the 401k custodians have any record of her 401k. And none of the states the the companies were located in, or that she lived in has any lost property.

My father in law, a very cynical man, thinks the companies screwed her and embezzled the money.
I am starting to think the "401K plan" was never vested (because she didnt work for the company long enough), and it was entirely employer contributed ESOP plans. And therefore wasn't hers to keep when she left. Is this actually possible?
Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Or if you might need more information, because you think you might have an idea, please let me know.
Thank again for your help everyone!

Please note, some of the years stated may be off by one or two years
Also, she has never received a 401k statement.


Ok. A lot going on here with the timeline.

First:
You mentioned bankruptcy in an earlier post. Was this incorrect? Was Dryden acquired by one of the other companies via bankruptcy?

If so, the ESOP funds could be gone since they are an asset of the company.


- If the company decided to buy-out the employees in the ESOP then 2 things could have happened:
1. The ESOP remained, but employees were given the buy-out option to switch to the 401k.

If this happened, then the she would not have automatically been transferred to the 401k. Just given the option.

2. The ESOP was terminated.

In this case, her assets should have been transferred automatically into the new 401k.


- She worked there for only 3 years.
An ESOP uses one of two forms of Vesting:
1. Cliff Vesting of 100% in either year 2 or 3.
2. Graded Vesting over 6 years. (20%/y2, 20%/y after)

So if she worked a FULL 3 years, she was either 100% or 40% Vested.
If she worked only 2 FULL years, then she was either 0% or 100%, or 20% Vested.

BUT, since SS says the year she received benefits was 1984, that means the ESOP reported some type of Vested Benefit in that year. So she had Vested Value.


- You need to go back and as who the Administrator was on the Plans. The Custodian holds the funds/Investments. But they may or may not be the Administrator on the Plan. And most ESOPs use a TPA (Third Part Administrator) (meaning not the Custodian).

The Admin is the one who does the record keeping and keep tracks of Vested Balances, sends out Statements, etc.

While the Custodian would have had references to the Participant (your mother in law), it would have been a side note in the overall investment portfolio. The Funds are labeled IBO (in benefit of) xxxxx Participant of xxxxxx ESOP/401k/Pension/etc.

But the Administrator will have had full records of everything going on in the Plan.

So ask the Custodian who the Administrator was on the Plan. Then contact them and ask them.


- Keep in mind that what I have said is based on CURRENT ESOP law. (And certainly is not legal advice)

But more importantly it could have been different back in the 80s. ESOPs are not exactly my strong suit.


But technically/legally the funds should have been transferred to the 401k if the ESOP was terminated, based on current law. If they were is a different story... Fiduciary Breaches are much more common on ESOPs.

But ask the Custodians (start with Great Western) who the Admin was on the Plan.

If the Admin has no record, ask them if they have a record of the Dryden ESOP at all. If they do, ask if they can tell you who the Admin was on the ESOP. If you could figure that out that would be helpful (assuming they are still in business).

If that doesnt pan out, just go down the line of 401k Custodians and ask about the Admin on the Plan.


If that doesnt work. Then there could have been different laws back in the 80s.... or there could have been sometype of Fiduciary breach....


Keep in mind, that she should have received a Yearly Statement for the ESOP for every single year she was in it, and for every single year since for any vested amount. If it was transferred to a new plan then the Admin would have done the same.
If none of this happened then it should have legally.

But, she also has a responsibility to be prudent with her accounts and keeping info current with the Admin. (i know you know this)
So legally after a certain time there might be laws were she forfeits it, especially with an ESOP. But I dont know for sure on that one. That would be a lawyer question.

Also, Im not sure how long an Admin is required to keep records for an ESOP either...
 
Are you sure it was a 401K and not a defined benefit plan? 401ks did not surface until the mid 80's. Any statements at all from 30 years ago to verify plan type?
 
Section 401(k) of the IRC became law in 1978. Before that companies used other forms of money purchase plans, such as profit sharing.
 
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