- 2,152
Now this is what I'm talking about, there is nothing in bold that indicates this person is talking about securities. He might of meant that but, I'm thinking he didn't. Financial Advice is far reaching as used here.
Anybody get the email from Key Financial?
- Thread starter sman
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- key man life
Now this is what I'm talking about, there is nothing in bold that indicates this person is talking about securities. He might of meant that but, I'm thinking he didn't. Financial Advice is far reaching as used here.
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- #42
So, I'm the only one that can give myself a black eye, huh? Is that why insurance salesman rank just above car salesman in the eyes of the general public? There is a negative perception the general public has of insurance salesman. It's my job to change that perception of the people I deal with on a daily basis.
Lost of control, huh?
And just where was it we were attacking annuities? I believe we are attacking the MISREPRESENTATION of information and the fact that there are unqualified people giving financial advice. Now, if you are one of those that likes to get people to refinance their homes and "invest" in an EIUL, yeah, I'll bash that all day long. Especially when the types of loans being used were/are the interest only loans. If I'm not mistaken, lots of lenders are having to foreclose on many of these types of loans in addition to the sub-prime loans. The 1-month LIBOR went from 1% to nearly 6% in 3 1/2 years. Guess what the payments on those mortgages did over that 3 1/2 year period? It has now come back down to just over 3%, but the damage is done to those who were living on the edge.
The NASD Notice to Member 05-50 I believe is all about money. The broker dealers were losing money to EIA sales and thus wanted to stop the bleeding. Now we have many broker dealers requiring that EIA sales be processed through the commission grid.
I never thought for one minute it had anything to do with the "protection" of seniors. It was definitely about protecting their own financial interests.
And just how are the markets being controlled today?
And what financial "theories" are these that you speak of?
What if they need the additional tax write off? Does the alternative get them to their ultimate financial goals? Also, in this scenario you didn't advise that they liquidate securities. So no big deal. Until I know what "X and XX" are and the clients full financial picture, I can't really give you an opinion as to whether it's sound advice or not.
- 129
No matter how badly this burns you up it is still the law. Don't like the law? Exits to the country can be found to the north and the south.
I would like to see how far the "thats BS" argument would get you with a board of FINRA arbirators.
An insurance agent ADVISING a client to reposition 401(k) assets into an annuity for a commission is the SAME as charging a fee. Either way, you are compensated for the advice you gave... it doesn't matter who writes the check.
On the other hand, if it is the client's idea to transfer assets into an annuity, then you're fine. Just document the hell out of it and make the sale!
Or.... and I know this one is tough.... you can obtain the proper licenses and registration to protect yourself. But why would you do that, you seem to know everything already...
- 2,152
No matter how badly this burns you up it is still the law. Don't like the law? Exits to the country can be found to the north and the south.
I would like to see how far the "thats BS" argument would get you with a board of FINRA arbirators.
An insurance agent ADVISING a client to reposition 401(k) assets into an annuity for a commission is the SAME as charging a fee. Either way, you are compensated for the advice you gave... it doesn't matter who writes the check.
On the other hand, if it is the client's idea to transfer assets into an annuity, then you're fine. Just document the hell out of it and make the sale!
Or.... and I know this one is tough.... you can obtain the proper licenses and registration to protect yourself. But why would you do that, you seem to know everything already...
I may not know everything but, I know I'm better off not being under the thumbs of the SEC or FINA. The law you are tyring to reference is basically so narrow as you suggest I or anyone can drive a mack truck thru it. I know you may not like that but, its the truth!
Ps, just so we are clear, I don't sell Annuities or sell so few I really not concern about the narrow point you are trying to make.
- 129
Narrow point? You're the splitting hairs between "financial advice" and "advice about securities"...
Do you think that anyone of us likes answering to the SEC, FINRA, MSRB or State SEC's & DOI's? The answer is no. But it is a nessecary evil and it is in the best interest of our industry that we as professionals be held accountable for our actions (and their consequences on the financial lives of the clients who trust us).
I also think it is not unreasonable of the regulating authorities to ask that a professional demostrate their abilities and expertise by passing a licensing exam with a freaking 70% or higher!
I can appreciate the whole "anti-establishment" tone of your argument, but I also have to wake up everyday and work in the real world.
It's interesting to watch the mortgage meltdown right now. Mortgage brokers are pointing the finger at the consumers, saying it is their responsibility to know what they are getting into when they have a 1% neg am loan. Consumers are saying 'I had no idea', banks are saying 'You didn't tell us', investors are saying 'What they #$#@'.
The problem is, the mortgage broker knew that the consumer would not be able to afford the payments without the negative. The bank knew it. The consumer knew it to, though they were told the value would go up, so no big deal.
Personally, I feel a lot of mortgage brokers should lose their licenses over the type of deals they did, pushing people into homes that they couldn't afford, for the purposes of making a commission. I have nothing against brokers making a commission, just they need to put the consumer first.
The same thing applies here. If you are selling something because it is what you have to sell, and you push it without knowledge of the consumers goals, desires, ambitions, and capabilities, you should not be allowed to sell anything that resembles a long term investment.
James - You have frequently answered good questions with 'How does that help sell annuities'? This is the question that bothers me. I understand it, and can appreciate the sentiment behind it, but, you still have to take the customers needs into consideration.
Dan
The problem is, the mortgage broker knew that the consumer would not be able to afford the payments without the negative. The bank knew it. The consumer knew it to, though they were told the value would go up, so no big deal.
Personally, I feel a lot of mortgage brokers should lose their licenses over the type of deals they did, pushing people into homes that they couldn't afford, for the purposes of making a commission. I have nothing against brokers making a commission, just they need to put the consumer first.
The same thing applies here. If you are selling something because it is what you have to sell, and you push it without knowledge of the consumers goals, desires, ambitions, and capabilities, you should not be allowed to sell anything that resembles a long term investment.
James - You have frequently answered good questions with 'How does that help sell annuities'? This is the question that bothers me. I understand it, and can appreciate the sentiment behind it, but, you still have to take the customers needs into consideration.
Dan
- 2,152
What no blame for the government? You do understand that a lot of sub-prime loans are pushed by State and Federal government, the whole thing about getting everyone into a home. Plus exactly what amount of foreclosures are we talking about? 2% or has it gone higher, 2% of sub prime loans?
So lets go here for a moment, what is the government doing about it? The old Keynes theory of priming the pump with lower interest rates and now a redistribution of wealth via tax giveaways. Now what is that saying and effectively doing, if it does help it is only prolonging the needed correction. Meaning another day the correction will come and likely be far worst as if we allow the correction to go ahead now. Which only strenghtens my point of government intrusion only hurts never helps in the long run.
My normal sales process goes on and never stops, as I stated I first sell Term/Blend then convert. I then go for the yearly review while offering various solutions and, yes that does include viewing their ideas of the home mortgage and other aspects of their financial well being. I seriously doubt many spend more time with their clients then I, or least that is what I gather listening to most here.
I'm not big on annuities personally, even though the sale process does not vary all the greatly from WL. The sentiment behind my thoughts go directly to the question of our economy and how shaky our equity markets can be as long as the Fed's keep trying to manipulate the markets for political gain. We just witness such in the tax relief bill the Congress passed and now the President will sign, just not a good thing at all! Then you have the idea that the Fed Reserve printing money like crazy and effectively making a bad situation worst, in time.
I know I view my long term equity investments in a dim light. In fact, I'm more convince today that holding for the long haul is at best a crap shoot and the house is using loaded dice!
- 2,152
I've always played using my rules, if you choose to use others have at it. I don't sell securities, never have never will.
- 129
Walk with caution, buddy, you don't want to be accused of running an unlicensed financial advisory practice.
Don't think it can't happen!
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- #50
I can't take it anymore. James, your grammar and grasp of the English language is horrible. Your transitions in your sentences are terrible. In the above paragraph you use "worst" TWICE when it shouldn't have been used at all. The correct word is "worse". I understand typo's, but that's no typo. That's how you speak. And if that's how you speak, God help you in this business. That's assuming you're dealing with educated people. There are several other errors in your post, but what's the use. At least you're not saying "yet, though" all the time like you did in the past. So kudos there.
As for your percentage on foreclosures, not even close. There are estimates that 15%-20% of all subprime loans will result in foreclosure. As of last June, 5.1% of all subprime loans were already in foreclosure. The simple fact that you don't think it's a big deal tells me you don't understand it's full impact on our economy.
Does that mean I want to government bailing us out on everything? Absolutely not. But if they can prevent the full impact this will cause on our economy, let them lower rates. It may not be the best solution, but it beats the alternative. Aren't you one of those "refinance your home and invest in an EIUL" guys? If so, you should be happy they are lowering rates. It gives you more suckers to go after.
Lastly, you said you always play by your rules and never planned on selling securities. I don't know if you could pass the securities exams. And if you always play by your rules, how do you explain following the rules that are set up for selling insurance? You had to meet the requirements and pass a test to get an insurance license. You have to follow the rules the carrier puts in place to get contracted with them. You have to follow their rules on submitting applications. You have to follow the rules set forth by local authorities as it pertains to speed limits. You have to follow the rules retailers have in place for purchasing items in their stores. The list goes on and on. You can claim to be this rebel, but we all have rules to follow.
