Gone to The Wild Kingdom

[Guest]

If someone hands me a business card with an insurance company's name on it - I have to question their objectivity.

From talking to many people in and close by my (somewhat) upscale neighborhood as well as at my club and people I just meet while waiting to check out of the grocery store, I find that older people (boomers... 50+) are not that impressed with "choice" and "objectivity" which is the connotation that independence "gives" that agent.

My un-scientific polling shows that they are more concerned with the credentials and "qualifications" of the agent and they (prospect) have a sense of added "security" if they feel that the agent has been well trained and has corporate resources behind him or her.... especially if they have heard of the corporate entity and have a "good feeling" about it (or at least not a negative one.)

I find that when they see "Joe Doaks Insurance Services" on a life or annuity agent's card they don't get the same "warm fuzzy" as they do when they see NYL or Met, etc.

Yes, it can work the opposite way... if the person has been screwed by NYL or Met... or knows someone who has... but I find that boomers, after having lived through three or four market crashes and major down-turns, are on a flight to quality. They want a "piece of the rock" so to speak.

Yesterday's go-go hedge fund manager or high-flying mutual fund guru... which has crashed and burned... and who was recommended by that nice looking young guy at "Joe Doaks Insurance"... has driven people to seek some measure of... what is the word... maybe "assurance" ...that the company and the person they hand over a chunk of their money to has the ability, training and "the culture" to, if not grow it, at least preserve it.

Honestly, if I thought that I could easily "attract" an age 50+ empty-nester family with kids in college who has liquid assets of $500K+... with just my name on my card... I would do it. But I'm finding that the guys and gals who are "getting" these clients are aligned with the big houses for the simple reason (among others, of course) that these houses lend legitimacy to the agent... and like it or not... in this business perception is often the reality.

Anyway, signing with MoO still leaves me as an independent contractor (I read every word of the contract... three times!) and there is no non-compete and there is no captivity beyond the fact that the company legally "owns" the client... but that's not a big deal to me right now.

If this deal is "right" it will be good... and I'll do well. If not, it won't be the first time I've made a bad business decision. I'm sure you all realize that good judgement... comes from bad judgement!

Al
MoO

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

You said "hit me with your best shot John" so ok; I was told going into this biz in '03 that in about a year or so I'd be out of work due to universal healthcare. Funny, I wrote 6 deals last week.

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid all have to be salvaged before we tackle a universal healthcare system.

Because you want it doesn't mean it's ever gonna happen. Aside from politicians on stumps what is currently in the works to implement a single payer system?

And finally, Americans don't want a single payer system. The left wing press does.

 

[Guest]

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid all have to be salvaged before we tackle a universal healthcare system.

Because you want it doesn't mean it's ever gonna happen. Aside from politicians on stumps what is currently in the works to implement a single payer system?

And finally, Americans don't want a single payer system. The left wing press does.

When I was about 12 I remember John Kennedy saying that we will go to the moon before the end of the decade. Everyone laughed at him, just as they did when he proposed... oh horror of horrors, socialized medicine in the form of Medicare!

You want a single-payor system in a year? Simple. We put everyone on Medicare, cut the defense budget by 30% (end this stupid war and close all the bases we have overseas troops at), end farm subsidies, and raise everyone's taxes about $1000 a year... and we will have a single payor system? Will it be better than what we have? For some, probably most, yes. For other, probably not. So what.

If you honestly believe that the current corrupt, wasteful, unfair, and discriminatory health financing system is defensible, than you are living in a dream-world. It is going to go away and will probably take you and your association members with it.

That's my view from the deep blue sea. YMMV.

Al
MoO

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

There is little doubt that the current system is broken and needs change. The insurance companies make easy targets, but there's lots of blame to go around; healthcare providers, attorneys, technology, and the citizenry itself can all join the insurance companies as culpable parties.

Research what percentage of health care dollars are spent on people that won't live another year...it'll shock ya. Can we really AFFORD what it takes to keep Grandma & Grandpa alive another four weeks?

We do enjoy the finest healthcare system in the world - and there is no shortage. I don't see many folks pining to move to Cuba, or France for that matter!

It is interesting to note that neither Obama OR Hillary is pushing a "single-payor" system of health insurance.

Obama claims more people would buy insurance if it were more "affordable" which based on my experience of working with it all day and every day - is bunk. There are lots of affordable options, but people choose to spend their money on HBO instead.

More Medicare? It's broke too. It has a 73 trillion, that's trillion with a "tr" unfunded liability.

The current employer based system is not workable anymore. Everyone should have their own policy that is portable. The insurance companies need to give a little when it comes to insurability problems - which they will as opposed to getting legislated on. If employers want to contribute part of the premium - so be it.

If everyone has to pay more to cover folks that refuse to buy health insurance, why not make 'em buy it - or refuse to treat them?

Where in the Constitution does it say that health care treatment is an inalienable, God-given right?

 

[somarco]

if Mutual could not make money at individual major med, most other co.s cannot as well- so far I may be mostly right.

Your source is?

MOO exited the individual market mostly because they were losing market share. At one time they were a dominant player in that market (behind BX) but along the way lost direction.

This is an excellent time for individual carriers (with exception of a few states). The market for these products are expanding and it can be very profitable (as long as the govt doesn't interfere).

 

[rapidrobert]

Our leftist friends in the EU have a bad history of blaspheming us and wanting us to be gone UNTIL they are attacked and then its, "Oh God please come back and save us." Trust me on this, most of the nations where we have bases feel a lot safer because we're there. Not to mention this "after we're attacked we'll lay down and appease militants" has a bad history too. You've noticed no doubt that since carrying the fight to radical Islam they haven't mounted any attack against us on our soil?

BTW you brought up your world view so "tit for tat."

 

[rapidrobert]

Oh and BTW health care in the UK and Canada is the envy of the USA right? ROTFLMAO.... Socialized medicine isn't the answer, there's certainly greed in the doctor and provider sector, as there is in the insurance sector but Comrade, there's NO place on earth more corrupt than the old Soviet Union and the other communist stooge nations. Well okay, maybe Mexico and further south, BUT my point is well taken.

 

[Guest]

Your source is?

MOO exited the individual market mostly because they were losing market share. At one time they were a dominant player in that market (behind BX) but along the way lost direction.

I scoured the internet looking for "dirt" on MoO... either from customers or agents and simply could not find much. The complaint ratios listed on the various state DOI websites were about the same or lower than for all the other well-known life carriers. And there is a court case or two about the so-called "vanishing premium" plans in the early 90s that a lot of carriers sold.

What I was really looking for was posts by agents who got screwed by MoO... sort of what you'd find if you look for "dirt" on Mega or Bankers or Mega, etc.

If anyone knows any good dirt about MoO, please PM me. I'd like to know it too! I looked hard but just didn't find any agents who aired gripes about their association with the company.

Al
MoO

 

[Dave020]

Al,

I don't see a need to look for any dirt on a company, MoO or otherwise. Roll with what you got, learn the products and appropriate market and enjoy yourself. Let Marlin chum for sharks while Jim is in the water LOL!

Nothing wrong with being a captive agent, I was one for six or seven years. As long as it fits where you want to be, go with it.

I don't necessarily advocate being "independent" for anyone other than myself. Everyone has a different fit, different needs and different natural market (and products). I am just too independent to be captive or ever work for a paycheck, but that does not mean it is not appropriate for others.

Now, get out there and sell some damned life insurance

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

When I was about 12 I remember John Kennedy saying that we will go to the moon before the end of the decade. Everyone laughed at him, just as they did when he proposed... oh horror of horrors, socialized medicine in the form of Medicare!

Well you've proven my point since we never went to the moon Apollo Moon Landing hoax theories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia