MM vs NWM

[scagnt83]

I like the senior market, but I would also like to be able to offer clients a more comprehensive product. I don't mind being an insurance agent, but would ultimately like to be more of an adviser. I have a passion for being able to help educate, and then offer products and solutions that will hopefully put them and their families in a better situation. Which is why I'm exploring other companies with more then a FE product.

Do not discount the value you provide a family by selling them a competitive life insurance policy that fits both their needs and budget. Especially when you bring up features or potential issues to cover that had never been brought up before. Same with DI, do not discount the value it adds and the life changing benefits it provides.

Also, you are not going to be an effective adviser in your first 3 years. I dont care how smart you are. Being an "adviser" means asset management. That is a whole other minefield to navigate your way through. Get a book of insurance business for a few years. Then you will have 100s of clients you can market to (who like you and trust you) once you decide to become a true financial adviser. Its much easier to be an agent first and advisor second, infinitely higher success rate too.

Trying to go the "adviser" route in the first year or two will only add to your chances of failure. Its more overhead costs, more products to learn, more licenses to acquire, more sales quotas to hit, more liability, more responsibility, more knowledge to gain.

----

However, if you go into insurance, you damn well better get rid of your current mindset of thinking about yourself as "just an insurance agent".

That is a guaranteed recipe for failure. If you dont believe in who you are, what you are doing and the advice you are giving; find something different.

 

[DHK]

However, if you go into insurance, you damn well better get rid of your current mindset of thinking about yourself as "just an insurance agent".

That is a guaranteed recipe for failure. If you dont believe in who you are, what you are doing and the advice you are giving; find something different.

John Savage can be helpful with the mindset and mentality:

 

[DecisionMan]

Thank you. You bring up some solid points.
I like the senior market, but I would also like to be able to offer clients a more comprehensive product. I don't mind being an insurance agent, but would ultimately like to be more of an adviser.

No objection to that as a goal, but you have to be able to survive first. Get to be the best at selling final expense, be an expert, be a beast! and bank the money.

Meanwhile, sit in on the various webinars the FMOs sponsor for the different life and annuity products. Spend money on the Retirement Analyzer user course to get a great idea of how products work into the future. Read all the insurance books you can as have already been recommended.

If you start trying to be more comprehensive, you'll find you're going into a much different set of clients - much, much different than the typical FE client. And it will take you away from your bread and butter, from your income stream, and distract you totally.

You probably don't believe that, but it will.

You'll start to hear that FE isn't really insurance, that its junk, and hear disparaging remarks about the senior market. That's how the big life and annuity producers at MM, NYL, NWM, etc view the senior market. But, most of the people in those shops don't make more than $50,000 annually but need the emotional support of the company name and supervision, and fancy business card.

Most of them are not really that good at the "comprehensive product." Most are talkers, some take stipends from the GA to be the "expert" in the office on a product, maybe they do some weekly seminar for new agents and enjoy the glory of a title - but they really don't produce like many of those in these forums.

You are just getting started. Go narrow and deep for now. Let your FE experience play out for a while and make some serious money before widening your product line. Eventually you'll meet up with someone who will mentor you into bigger sales, someone who you can trust - but do not trust the big agencies to take care of you.

This industry is all about self-care, self-starters, but selfless selling.

 

[Life Hawk]

It's not about the product. It's about how you help people to solve problems, make informed decisions, and set proper priorities.

That!

Not a company guy... was, not any more.

"You" are the common denominator of your own success... to turn of phase of Mr. Gray's.

...and you can always shift when the time is appropriate.

 

[LWilliams]

@LWilliams DHK makes an excellent point about length of the sales process with the clientele that mutual carriers target. Especially with the type of sales they target.

The most successful new agents I saw at NYL concentrated on simple term sales. They sold very few WL policies in their first 2-3 years, it was 99% term. To a lesser extent, some focused on simple annuity sales targeting CD money with MYGAs. Both are simple concepts that are easy for both client and agent to understand. They close quick and you get paid a lot quicker vs. complicated products/situations.


Since you are not brand new to the industry. Why not consider being an independent agent? If you want to provide the best possible solution to clients, that is the only way to do it. No one single carrier will be the best fit for all, or even most of your clients.

That is the main reason I left NYL... there was almost always a better price/rate/etc. vs. what I could provide..... I still made sales, but it certainly did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing I could cut their term premium by $50 a month by using a different carrier. Those sales are made on the "brand" not the product. If you can convince yourself that MM or NWM is the absolute best regardless of price... then you will sleep fine and do fine... but they are by no means the absolute best... so I couldnt stay in that environment. Not to mention the amount of term sales I lost y1 to competitors who were A+ rated and 50% cheaper.

The same will be true with MM & NWM. Whole Life will be the only product that is actually competitive compared to the overall market. The only way to rationally believe you are doing the "best thing" for your clients is if you honestly believe that carriers is better than all the others regardless of price. (others have the same product features as well)


So why not just go indy? MM has an independent agent contract, you dont have to be a Mass Agent to sell them. Plus you can offer Penn, Guardian, Ohio National, and other mutual carriers. NWM is literally about the only major mutual you wont be able to sell as an indy agent... and I dont know of any indy agents that would actually want to sell their products.

Indy allows you to control your business. You can go after the more complex markets, but still go after the simple markets as well to keep the bills paid month to month (simple could mean term, fe, medicare, MYGAs, etc.). And you will know you are doing right by your clients by shopping the market to provide the best product for their individual situation.

There is plenty of training out there these days if you look hard enough. You dont really "need" a career shop to train you. And working from a home office is not a turn off to most clients like a lot of new agents think it is (you can lease cheap meeting space by the hour in most cities, or even use the free conference rooms your local library provides, or just use a coffee shop). I personally do most of my sales these days over the phone via e-apps, even in my own town.

I used to be a big advocate of starting at a big mutual career shop to get training, then moving to indy after 3 years. Not so much anymore. The industry has changed too much. Its an antiquated system that is not in favor of the client or in favor of a new agents success.

You bring up some solid points. I have also been considering going indy. I actually reached out to some carriers about getting appointed, but haven't heard back. I have not tried with the companies you mentioned. I will look into those ones. And yes, I have been in the industry but only part time. Now I'm at the point in my carrier where I want to become fully invested. And I do still feel that I could benefit from the training that I've heard you will receive at a larger firm. I have watched a lot of videos on YouTube and have learned some things. Would you be able to recommend any training programs?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

 

[LWilliams]

No objection to that as a goal, but you have to be able to survive first. Get to be the best at selling final expense, be an expert, be a beast! and bank the money.

Meanwhile, sit in on the various webinars the FMOs sponsor for the different life and annuity products. Spend money on the Retirement Analyzer user course to get a great idea of how products work into the future. Read all the insurance books you can as have already been recommended.

If you start trying to be more comprehensive, you'll find you're going into a much different set of clients - much, much different than the typical FE client. And it will take you away from your bread and butter, from your income stream, and distract you totally.

You probably don't believe that, but it will.

You'll start to hear that FE isn't really insurance, that its junk, and hear disparaging remarks about the senior market. That's how the big life and annuity producers at MM, NYL, NWM, etc view the senior market. But, most of the people in those shops don't make more than $50,000 annually but need the emotional support of the company name and supervision, and fancy business card.

Most of them are not really that good at the "comprehensive product." Most are talkers, some take stipends from the GA to be the "expert" in the office on a product, maybe they do some weekly seminar for new agents and enjoy the glory of a title - but they really don't produce like many of those in these forums.

You are just getting started. Go narrow and deep for now. Let your FE experience play out for a while and make some serious money before widening your product line. Eventually you'll meet up with someone who will mentor you into bigger sales, someone who you can trust - but do not trust the big agencies to take care of you.

This industry is all about self-care, self-starters, but selfless selling.

Thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post.

Finale expense hasn't been going all that great for me. I think that is is largely in part to the leads I've been getting. A lot of the people I call say someone has recently talked to them about the same product.. Any good lead vendors you could recommend?

 

[Life Hawk]

Finale expense hasn't been going all that great for me. I think that is is largely in part to the leads I've been getting. A lot of the people I call say someone has recently talked to them about the same product.

First, I would try door knocking some, totally different experience.

Second, product is product... work on price when you get that objection or additional benefits such as AD or child/grand child riders. (When I get that response at the door I like to ask, "So, is your agent as good looking as I am?")

You may need to study up on some rebuttal material.

 

[WMSG]

Both MM and NWM are excellent companies from an insurance company, financial, and product perspective. Both considered "leaders" in the mutual/life insurance field. I've been in the life insurance business for 35 years, and it's all I've ever done. I don't do health insurance, DI, annuities, FE, or anything else. My practice is a life insurance-driven practice. That said, I do a lot of business with MM. I have an old, grandfathered PPGA contract with them, which is a hybrid contract. It no longer exists. A portion of my cases annually have been MM cases every year since I entered the business. As far as NWM, having a "consulting" practice side of my practice, I also know NWM very well. I also do JCW with a few NWM producers, so my dealings with NWM is current and ongoing. And, one producer in my study group is a "detached" NWM producer who has built his own wealth management firm (and has a lot of grandfathered agreements, arrangements, capabilities that aren't allowed today).

Be that as it may, here's an element that most people won't address with you -- the agency, organization, and/or firm you are with. Here's why that's a factor. If you go with a NWM mutual agency, first, you will be a "career agent" and sign a "career contract" (with NWM). Sure, producers have the availability and accessibility to write outside business, but it tends to be insular and narrow focused. In addition, most NWM agencies are "life insurance" organizations. Sure, they offer AUM, investment products, etc. -- but it's a life insurance driven environment. They are not really oriented toward -- fee-based planning, wealth management, etc. Some agencies more than others, but it's not a major focus or motivation.

MM on the other hand has a bit of a different culture, and it very much depends on the agency, organization, and/or firm you are with. If you join a MM "agency" -- it might be very similar to the NWM model I described above. Yes, you will probably sign a "career agent" contract, like above. However, there are MM "agencies" that really aren't structured as or operate as an "agency" so to speak. There are MM agencies with a focus on -- some exclusively do -- fee-based planning, they have their own RIA and/or BD (no longer, but those that exist are grandfathered), and are much more immersed into the wealth management arena. They focus on estate planning, wealth management, comprehensive and holistic planning -- whereas the NWM/life insurance driven and focused model is more centered on life insurance and life insurance planning. They are far more oriented toward, provide far more accessibility, and have more of an "open architecture" with regard to outside products/outside life insurance. I have friends with a "firm" that technically is a MM agency, but they have zero resemblance to a life insurance agency -- they are a wealth management firm. If they have a life case, is there motivation to sell MM? Yes, but if they have a UL/SGUL/NLGUL case, they can and do go "outside" and they do so very often.

If you want to dig down and look at compensation, renewals, vested vs. non-vested options, and more -- I recommend you do that on an agency or firm level. If you want to look at product specifics, again, both offer excellent whole life products. Is one company's product going to outperform the other at a certain age, all things being equal? It's a fallacious argument. Each has more than one product, and each product can be designed differently. Digging deep into the weeds accomplishes nothing. They are both excellent companies.

If I was "starting" today -- and I had to pick one -- and I knew what I knew today, I would pick MM, and specifically certain specific MM "agencies"/organizations/firms -- but that's because planning, wealth management, tax, estate planning, fee-based planning, etc., appeals to me. However, given carte blanche, same starting point -- starting today, and knowing what I know today -- neither would be my first choice, but the specific MM agency/organization/firm would certainly be my third or fourth choice.

Good luck in your search and all the best!

 

[LWilliams]

Both MM and NWM are excellent companies from an insurance company, financial, and product perspective. Both considered "leaders" in the mutual/life insurance field. I've been in the life insurance business for 35 years, and it's all I've ever done. I don't do health insurance, DI, annuities, FE, or anything else. My practice is a life insurance-driven practice. That said, I do a lot of business with MM. I have an old, grandfathered PPGA contract with them, which is a hybrid contract. It no longer exists. A portion of my cases annually have been MM cases every year since I entered the business. As far as NWM, having a "consulting" practice side of my practice, I also know NWM very well. I also do JCW with a few NWM producers, so my dealings with NWM is current and ongoing. And, one producer in my study group is a "detached" NWM producer who has built his own wealth management firm (and has a lot of grandfathered agreements, arrangements, capabilities that aren't allowed today).

Be that as it may, here's an element that most people won't address with you -- the agency, organization, and/or firm you are with. Here's why that's a factor. If you go with a NWM mutual agency, first, you will be a "career agent" and sign a "career contract" (with NWM). Sure, producers have the availability and accessibility to write outside business, but it tends to be insular and narrow focused. In addition, most NWM agencies are "life insurance" organizations. Sure, they offer AUM, investment products, etc. -- but it's a life insurance driven environment. They are not really oriented toward -- fee-based planning, wealth management, etc. Some agencies more than others, but it's not a major focus or motivation.

MM on the other hand has a bit of a different culture, and it very much depends on the agency, organization, and/or firm you are with. If you join a MM "agency" -- it might be very similar to the NWM model I described above. Yes, you will probably sign a "career agent" contract, like above. However, there are MM "agencies" that really aren't structured as or operate as an "agency" so to speak. There are MM agencies with a focus on -- some exclusively do -- fee-based planning, they have their own RIA and/or BD (no longer, but those that exist are grandfathered), and are much more immersed into the wealth management arena. They focus on estate planning, wealth management, comprehensive and holistic planning -- whereas the NWM/life insurance driven and focused model is more centered on life insurance and life insurance planning. They are far more oriented toward, provide far more accessibility, and have more of an "open architecture" with regard to outside products/outside life insurance. I have friends with a "firm" that technically is a MM agency, but they have zero resemblance to a life insurance agency -- they are a wealth management firm. If they have a life case, is there motivation to sell MM? Yes, but if they have a UL/SGUL/NLGUL case, they can and do go "outside" and they do so very often.

If you want to dig down and look at compensation, renewals, vested vs. non-vested options, and more -- I recommend you do that on an agency or firm level. If you want to look at product specifics, again, both offer excellent whole life products. Is one company's product going to outperform the other at a certain age, all things being equal? It's a fallacious argument. Each has more than one product, and each product can be designed differently. Digging deep into the weeds accomplishes nothing. They are both excellent companies.

If I was "starting" today -- and I had to pick one -- and I knew what I knew today, I would pick MM, and specifically certain specific MM "agencies"/organizations/firms -- but that's because planning, wealth management, tax, estate planning, fee-based planning, etc., appeals to me. However, given carte blanche, same starting point -- starting today, and knowing what I know today -- neither would be my first choice, but the specific MM agency/organization/firm would certainly be my third or fourth choice.

Good luck in your search and all the best!

I really, really LOVE all the feed back and support I've gotten on this forum. THANK YOU.

So with that said. Who or what would be your first choice?

 

[WMSG]

I really, really LOVE all the feed back and support I've gotten on this forum. THANK YOU.

So with that said. Who or what would be your first choice?

My first choice -- would probably be -- an M Group firm. I haven't looked, shopped, etc., from a producer perspective. However, I do get very target, specific calls, looking to see if I am interested in "selling" or being "acquired" so to speak. So, for me, any potential succession plan, acquisition, sale, etc. -- would result in me having to look at "what that looks like" from a producer perspective as I wouldn't be "retiring" and "not working" moving forward.

That said, I know the industry...I guess I might say...both vocationally, and advocationally and from the related perspectives. In addition, from an operational, structural, and business perspective, as well as from a practical, business model, and day to day perspective.

The MM firms I spoke about, they don't take new producers, new people to the industry, or "average" producers. They exclusively look to recruit seasoned, successful producers, and take them to the next level, the one beyond that, and so on. Any M Group firm, same thing, perhaps an even higher level of producer. One of the guys in my study group is an M Group firm, and you couldn't even get an appointment with his "parent" firm, unless you do $1mm a year in life premium (and I don't remember how much you need to have in AUM). In this type of conversation, you are talking about the premier firms in the country, and the top tier people in the life insurance industry (producer-wise).