Pls Help Me Decide Between Guardian and UC Policy

[ashishnarang]

Hi all,

I was just approved for both Guardian and UC. I am an emergency medicine resident graduating in a few days and moving to Houston for a job in an ER.

i have hypertension and hypothyroidism. i am 32 years old. there are no exclusions in the policy. please see attached UC and Guardian policy proposals. again, i have been approved and these are the final figures.

the guardian agent says guardian is the best. i am getting a 10% disc with them. UC is giving 15% thru AMA, and also they said if I get DI thru them, UC will give me the preferred best rate for term life 30 year, $3M, which is a product i also want.

any suggestions on which to go with will be appreciated. the guardian agent is working on their term life policy, so i have not seen those figures. he says UC has a lower DCI rating or something. i am not a financial person, and this stuff is confusing i thank you in advance for your input.

 

[dgoldenz]

Guardian does have the best contract and best definition of disability. Disability is not like life insurance where a claim is paid when you die and you can only be dead or not dead. Disability insurance all comes down to the policy's definitions and you generally get what you pay for. The agent for Union Central will try to compete on price and the agent for Guardian will no doubt compete on Guardian having the best contract and highest financial rating (A++) and UC only having an A rating. The illustrations you posted also have two different benefit maximums, so it's not really comparing apples-to-apples.

Both Union Central and Guardian aren't going to be that competitive on life insurance. If we assume you qualify for the best risk class (Preferred Plus) with all companies, the rates look like this:

20-year guarantee
Banner Life - $1,145/year
Union Central - $1,400/year
Guardian - $1,830/year

30-year guarantee
Banner Life - $2,045/year
Union Central - $2,600/year
Guardian - $2,760/year

 

[VolAgent]

Without commenting on the DI, don't be so quick to dismiss Guardian's term. It is convertible to their whole life, one of the better ones out there. Depending on your speciality, you may have a desire to own some whole life, but your underwriting class may change between now and then. When you convert, you get to keep the underwriting class you originally had, and you pay based on your current age and the original underwriting class.

 

[dgoldenz]

Without commenting on the DI, don't be so quick to dismiss Guardian's term. It is convertible to their whole life, one of the better ones out there. Depending on your speciality, you may have a desire to own some whole life, but your underwriting class may change between now and then. When you convert, you get to keep the underwriting class you originally had, and you pay based on your current age and the original underwriting class.

SBLI also has a good WL history and their term rates are still 30% lower than Guardian. Same example, $2130 for SBLI and $2760 for Guardian with the extended conversion.

 

[Norwayguy]

Forget the Term policy for right now as it is muddying up the waters...The first question is do you want a $6000 per month benefit or $10,000? Have one of the requoted at the numbers you want. Second your future increase options are different your max with Guardian base + FIOs is $16,000 per month and UC its $15,000....Also the COLA are different UCs cost of living adjustment is 3% simple and Guardian is 3% compounded.

*Note* When I say forget the term policy I don't mean do not get the term but why not make the carriers compete on the term like you have them competeing on the DI.

 

[scagnt83]

I would have to side with Union Central for a couple of key reasons; but there is a more important issue you need to address first:
The benefit amount.

You need to decide how much income replacement you really need; do you need $6K or $10K??



On to the policies, they both have a few key differences. But are both good strong policies.


-Elimination period:
Do you need 90 days or 180?

UC has a feature that reduces the elim by 2 days for every year with no claim, and will do that down to 30 days; so the 180 might be attractive with that in mind.... it depends on how much savings you keep around.

Recurrent disability while under elim is more liberal under UC; Guardian only gives you 210 days between days and UC gives you a full year.


-Disability:
I would say that UC has a better definition.
The main difference is that Guardian only looks back for 12 months at your occupation; UC looks back at just the last occupation(s) no matter how long ago you have been employed; so if you are layed off for over 12 months you have no DI benefit anymore with Guardian...

Other than that they are exactly the same.



-Future Increase Option:
Guardian allows for a higher raise in benefit amount, but requires more conditions to qualify for it; it also coordinates with other DI policies that you own and that you could qualify for (work policies etc.)

UC only allows you to do a full increase in the future for the 1st three years; after that its up to 50% of the base amount (that is a pretty hefty raise though).
UC only requires financial proof; they do not look at employment or other DI policies.

-COLA:
Guardian wins with the compounding, but most disabilities average 4-7 years (obviously not all)

-Residual Benefit:
UC is more liberal; and again, does not coordinate with other DI policies.


UC will not cover mental or nervous disorders.
Guardian will not cover you if your professional license or certification is revoked of suspended.


UC has a special medical professional specialty inclusion that they can attach to policies if you have a specific specialty.


If it was me I would take the UC policy for the 90 day elim and for the benefit amount that you actually need...

 

[ashishnarang]

hi all, thank you for the replies. I want 10k benefit. the union guy re-ranit and says it will cost $3987.00 per year:
Union 10K:
Base Monthly Benefit
Elimination Period: 90 Days
Maximum Benefit Period: To Age 67
$10,000 $289.52
Total Monthly Benefit $10,000 $289.52
Potential Annual Base Benefit ($10,000.00 x 12 months) = $120,000
*Potential Cumulative Base Benefit ($10,000.00 x 12 months x 36 years) = $4,320,000
Definition of Disability: Own Occupation
Base Policy Features
Nondisabling Injury Benefit $3,000 No Charge
COBRA Premium Benefit No Charge
Survivor Benefit No Charge
Good Health Benefit No Charge
Presumptive Total Disability No Charge
Surgical Transplant Benefit No Charge
Cosmetic Surgery Benefit No Charge
Rehabilitation No Charge
Waiver of Premium No Charge
Optional Riders Selected
Enhanced Residual Disability Rider (Required for Medical Occupations) $45.75
Cost of Living Adjustment Rider (COLA) 3% Simple $49.10
Future Increase Option Rider (FIO) $5,000 $19.02
Discounts
Premium Before Discounts: $403.39
Association Discount 15% -$59.91
Total Monthly Premium $343.49
Annual $3,987.45
Semi-Annual $2,036.19
Quarterly $1,039.34

---------------
so the guardian is $5188.00 for 10k, difference of about $1200.00 between the two. guys, what is the difference between cola 3% simple (union) versus, as guardian cola 3% compounded? which is better? can i ask union to give me compounded if that is better? also, i asked the union guy to re-run at 90 days waiting period, so now it is more apples to apples.

thanks all!!

 

[BNTRS]

The diff between 3 compound and 3 simple is this:

simple means they take your 10k base benefit and do the following equation 10,000*.03=300

UC then takes the $300 and adds it to your monthly benefit every year (so you get an additional 300 every year you are on claim).


Compound means they take the following equation: 10000 * (1+.03)^n, where n = a given year

So at the end of year 3 of being on claim UC would be 10,600 (and extra 300 per year) and Guardian would be 10,609

Both are good contracts. Guardian has the best definition. The unlimited mental nervous benefit with Guardian is unfortunately off the table since you are in the ER.

so if you are layed off for over 12 months you have no DI benefit anymore with Guardian...

While this might be very technically true, I'd want to check with Berkshire on this, I would find the probability of being in this situation very unlikely.

As a doctor with a high income this is one of those where contract really matters. Guardian is the leader, and medical market is their thing. The residual (partial benefit) and COLA benefits are quite a bit better.

I'll echo the other suggestions that you are better off ignoring the term life insurance piece because you can probably do better than both Guardian and UC

 

[ashishnarang]

currently the job offer i accepted is as an "independent contractor" for a company called teamhealth. it is a big, publicly traded company, national, and holds contracts to EDs all over US. for now IC status might be good tax wise for me, eventually i might shift to being an employee, but i wonder, does the IC status matter to these disability companies? my salary would change depending on how many hours i work, although i was hired full time and plan to work full time.

also,
1)do guardian or UC offer coverage for hiv? youknow, like a needle stick that makes me positive? i will ask the agent, but i wonder if the experts here might know.

2) it is my understanding that guardian has a better "recurrent disabilities" policy. is that right?
here is my understanding of this, from a pamphlet:
"you are not subject to another waiting period for a continuing illness or injury if you attempt to return to work and a related disability reoccurs within 12 months of the time you return to work."

thanks much!

 

[BNTRS]

The IC status might be interesting. Have you discussed it with either agent? You are being compensated for hours worked? And have a contract that is requiring a specific number of hours worked? IC status merely means you'll be paid 1099 instead of W-2? If this isn't the case, then that might change things. You said you were already approved so both companies ought to already know this and be fine with the arrangement.

Yes, Guardian is better on the recurring side, they are 12 mos doesn't matter what it is. UC, unless something has changed recently, is 12 mos needs to be the same thing.

Both would cover HIV. You most likely wouldn't immediately begin to satisfy the elim period, since you most likely wouldn't have an immediate loss of earnings, but you would be covered under either. In fact, even the crappy products out there would cover you for something like this as it developed (made it more difficult for you to work).