HSA - Embedded Deductibles vs Family Deductible

[Dave020]

Good to hear.

So I will assume that you would be in favor of a plan where everyone is insured, no matter what?

And if that means the end of heath brokers as we know them, you are OK with that, right?

If it means that you are legislated out of a market, you would be supportive, assuming the plan was a good one... or at least one that people are in favor of, correct?

And you are willing to move to a different sector of the financial service industry, true?

I ask because it's easy to say "I do this and I do that and I'm Mr. Terrific." But as is often the case, these are the people who are the staunchest supporters of the current system because they rationalize the few pro-bono cases they do as a justification for making out like a bandit on a system that is simply broken... designed and basically regulated by the carriers. (Ask me how many lawyers I know and how they rationalize the system THEY work in!)

Anyway, this is NOT to beat-up on you. You seem like an honest, truthful guy. I'm fine with whatever position you take. If you say you're a "client guy" then that's fine with me. You have nothing to prove to me or anyone else.

You're a "senior member" of this forum and the industry and I think you have a lot of influence.... far more than I do, should, ... or ever could. There are changes that I believe will happen (John's "ostrich" position notwithstanding) and I'm just curious Dave, how close to the yellow line does the rubber meet YOUR road?

You can preach to me. I always have an open mind (and mouth!)


Al

I favor the solution similar to what the governor has proposes. That is the real direction we need to head in. Universal health care is a great idea, socialized state-run health care would be a disaster.

Problem is we already have this in CA, there are hundreds of programs and plans available no one should be uninsured in CA. We even have multiple cross-border plans available for illegals and documented workers.

Should the powers that be choose a socialized state or federal system, I would either sell supplements or failing that, switch into other areas. I have done investments, corporate and personal life insurance (with very big name companies you would know) and certainly have done my fair share of DI and LTC. I would survive no problem.

I can't control what the government will do, so I have to go with the flow. But my basic premise stays the same, health insurance should be available to everyong.

To address Txagent - I am not suggesting that everyone buys it, duh! I am suggesting that everyone who wants to buy it should have the opportunity without barriers such as restrictive underwriting. We can't control people's decisions, only help those whose decisions may be blocked by obstacles not of their making.

On topic, bank the premium dollars over the potential risk and over time I think most times the client will come out ahead. Medical expenses in general or an unforseeable risk, who knows what they will be. Most times for most people they are pretty low.

 

[Guest]

Someone needs to explain to me why this makes any sense. The comment that clients with a lot of money don't care about cost is crap!

And you know this how? Personal experience? Intuition? People with money didn't get rich by pinching pennies. They got rich by understanding value... adding it, and taking it. I speak from experience, both mine and that of others.

Al, I would love to follow you after you sell someone an Aetna plan and show your a lower cost plan with equal or better benefits. I would never need to prospect again. And I would guess that I'd re-write at least 75% of your clients.

Nope. You have a penny-pincher's attitude. You'd never get in the door. You don't understand the paradigm.

Wealthy people are terrified of only two things. First is losing their money. Second is losing their health. They are not afraid of going to jail (Lay, Helmsley, Baker, etc.) and they are not afraid of personal/public embarrassment, thus the cheating on their spouses and outrageous behavior (Kennedy, Newsom, Trump, etc.). It's money and health. That's it for them.

You would never be able to explain to them that losing their health could result in them losing their money. With your "I'll save you a dime" pitch, they would never connect the dots.

You need to understand the mentality of wealth. We will spend fifty cents to protect a dollar. We will save a dollar to protect two dollars... and the beat goes on. We don't operate on logic, we operate on emotion.

You would sit with them and say "Joe, I'm going to save you $800." He is going to think "So what? $800? BFD. The hubcaps on the SL cost more than that. Who is this schmuck?"

I sit with him and say "I'm going to protect fifteen hundred of your dollars." He thinks, "Protection... I gotta protect my money. This guy talks my language."

The rich are different. Maybe not each and every one of them, but most of them... especially 'older' money from family.

I'd probably do poorly in your neighborhood as I don't have any experience in living check to check or hand to mouth.

As for sales strategy, you can (and I know will) disagree, but I believe in the old adage that insurance is not bought... it's sold.

YMMV.

Al

 

[TXINSURANCE]

To address Txagent - I am not suggesting that everyone buys it, duh! I am suggesting that everyone who wants to buy it should have the opportunity without barriers such as restrictive underwriting. We can't control people's decisions, only help those whose decisions may be blocked by obstacles not of their making.

Be carefull what you wish for. Restictive underwriting is there so these companies do not go bankrupt. Only 5 states have guaranteed issue and it is a HUGE disaster, premiums are so high you can not sell anything.

CA has more gov't programs then you can shake a stick at for the sick and poor - even the illegals!!!

Not to mention a CA risk pool which last I checked allows a person to buy an individual product if in the pool for 3 years? I am not up to speed on the CA pool but the best solution in individual is a risk pool model.

Advocating a guaranteed issue system is a disaster that will put us all out of business and limit the free market competition.

Sorry to get off topic.

 

[James]

I favor the solution similar to what the governor has proposes. That is the real direction we need to head in. Universal health care is a great idea, socialized state-run health care would be a disaster.

LOL, yea you drank the kool-aid! Difference between Universal HC and Socialize HC, there is no difference.

 

[BKrocko]

[FONT=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif]As my old friend [/FONT][/FONT][SIZE=-1]Patricia Andrejewski used to say "Hit me with your best shot." (Look it up!)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Al[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Insurance Solutions 123[/SIZE]

One of my best friends is an Andrejewski (only those who know them can pronounce the name correctly). Although I am not a fan of most of her music, Pat Benatar has lasted in the business long enough to be respected. No song hint needed but thanks anyway.

 

[somarco]

I like what I do

Really?

You do a great impression of someone who actually hates what they do. Kind of a Walter Matthau type.

 

[GreenSky]

And you know this how? Personal experience? Intuition? People with money didn't get rich by pinching pennies. They got rich by understanding value... adding it, and taking it. I speak from experience, both mine and that of others.

Nope. You have a penny-pincher's attitude. You'd never get in the door. You don't understand the paradigm.

Wealthy people are terrified of only two things. First is losing their money. Second is losing their health. They are not afraid of going to jail (Lay, Helmsley, Baker, etc.) and they are not afraid of personal/public embarrassment, thus the cheating on their spouses and outrageous behavior (Kennedy, Newsom, Trump, etc.). It's money and health. That's it for them.

You would never be able to explain to them that losing their health could result in them losing their money. With your "I'll save you a dime" pitch, they would never connect the dots.

You need to understand the mentality of wealth. We will spend fifty cents to protect a dollar. We will save a dollar to protect two dollars... and the beat goes on. We don't operate on logic, we operate on emotion.

You keep saying "We." I don't know your definition of wealth, but I have a good income from understanding and selling insurance. Perhaps you became wealthy from other sources.

But I didn't know your wealthy puts you in the same catagory as people like Kennedy. Did you have a rich daddy too?

You would sit with them and say "Joe, I'm going to save you $800." He is going to think "So what? $800? BFD. The hubcaps on the SL cost more than that. Who is this schmuck?"

I sit with him and say "I'm going to protect fifteen hundred of your dollars." He thinks, "Protection... I gotta protect my money. This guy talks my language."

No, you are going to tell them that you are protecting 2,000 of their dollars by having them spend 1,000. Although some rich are stupid, not all of them are. I'm going to point out that they are wasting $1,000 and that their current agent might not know the value of a dollar.

I'd probably do poorly in your neighborhood as I don't have any experience in living check to check or hand to mouth.

Well, if you inherited your money, perhaps not. You might not be able to afford my neighborhood as you have no idea where I live. I earned well over 6 figures from insurance last year - health insurance. Don't make assumptions that those of us who understand and provide a real service don't make a decent living.

As for sales strategy, you can (and I know will) disagree, but I believe in the old adage that insurance is not bought... it's sold.

Coming from a guy (you) who has proven over and over you have no idea about insurance, this means nothing. Tell me about computers and I will listen. You should spend more time listening to those of us who have made our careers in selling quality insurance.

By the way, both good and bad products are sold by people who both understand and have no idea what they are doing. So Al, if the shoe fits...

Rick

 

[somarco]

Patricia Andrejewski used to say "Hit me with your best shot

I know her as Pat Benatar but you are older than me so you probably knew her in another life.

What a hottie!

Pat, not you.

 

[GreenSky]

Offer for Al

Al:

I've been hard on you because you are so damn pompus about your beliefs. You constantly let all of us know that you are wealthy and know better than real insurance agents.

Let me make you an offer.

Fly into Burbank airport, I'll pick you up. I'll spring for lunch and teach you why your ideas are wrong.

Then you can fly back.

You have obviously been taught insurance by company reps who also don't understand insurance.

This is the best offer you'll ever get. But only if you really want to learn how to help your clients get real value.

Rick

 

[Guest]

As for sales strategy, you can (and I know will) disagree, but I believe in the old adage that insurance is not bought... it's sold.

Coming from a guy (you) who has proven over and over you have no idea about insurance, this means nothing.

I don't doubt it. You don't impress me as the most open-minded guy on the planet. You know what you know, and that's it.

There is a lot of advice on this board. I'm always concerned with what I don't know and so I listen to what everyone has to say and I do my best to adjudicate it with my own experience.

But at the end of the day I keep my own counsel in the knowledge that no on REALLY knows how to sell insurance... or anything else for that matter... 100% of the time.

Tell me about computers

I did.

and I will listen.

you didn't.

You should spend more time listening to those of us who have made our careers in selling quality insurance.

I don't know. Henry Ford didn't listen to a lot of others on how to make cars.

What works for you may or may not work for others. You should try to understand that. Everyone is not YOU. Everyone is different.

I know a lot of old insurance guys whom I wouldn't want to emulate. I've found most 'career guys' to be more hot-air than substance, but there are exceptions.

By the way, both good and bad products are sold by people who both understand and have no idea what they are doing. So Al, if the shoe fits...

Well lots of different shoes fit on my feet. I don't know it all like you and others do. I absolutely know what I don't know. And one of the things I don't know is why I try to argue with you... since I have no credibility with you.

Seems to me you are just spoiling for a fight.

So you march to your song and I'll march to mine and we'll all agree to disagree and move on.

Translator: The general would like to know if you will drink a toast with him.
Patton: Thank the general and tell him I have no desire to drink with him or any other Russian son of a bitch.
Translator: [Nervous] I can't tell him that!
Patton: Tell him, every word.
Translator: [In Russian] He says he will not drink with you or any Russian son of a bitch.
Russian general: [In Russian] Tell him he is a son of a bitch, too. Now!
Translator: [Very nervous] He says he thinks you are a son of a bitch, too.
Patton: [Laughing] All right. All right, tell him I'll drink to that; one son of a bitch to another.

Al