Is CV a marketing gimmick in VUL?

[MIBizInsurance]

I need some of these customers.... I know they exist, but they don't come out of the woodwork.

Dan

/smile

 

[Mr. Bill]

Dave,

Please share where I can get a $1 million DB for $4,000 on a man in his "early 80's" - I'm going to rent a UHaul and back that truck UP!!!!!

 

[Dave020]

I need some of these customers.... I know they exist, but they don't come out of the woodwork.

Dan

I got several of them when I was with NML - it really helps to have a big hitter company to bring to the table - you can find them (of course I was working in Silicon Valley) but they are going to want that big name recognition before they will seriously consider meeting with you. NML, MM, Pru, NYL are the big hitters in that arena.

Largest I ever wrote was $100k per year premium for a business doing exit strategy and buy/sell funding. It was a really nice case.

 

[Dave020]

Dave,

Please share where I can get a $1 million DB for $4,000 on a man in his "early 80's" - I'm going to rent a UHaul and back that truck UP!!!!!

I think you are confusing Al's post with my post, I never mentioned anyone in their 80's in my post. Mine was simply an example and since I used a 30-year window, it was purchase in the 50's which is easy for 4,000 a year in VUL/UL premium. Won't work as well for VWL or other WL products due to inability to futz with premium.

 

[djs]

I got several of them when I was with NML - it really helps to have a big hitter company to bring to the table - you can find them (of course I was working in Silicon Valley) but they are going to want that big name recognition before they will seriously consider meeting with you. NML, MM, Pru, NYL are the big hitters in that arena.

Largest I ever wrote was $100k per year premium for a business doing exit strategy and buy/sell funding. It was a really nice case.

I work in Silicon Valley, and I've come across my fair share of these types of clients I guess. I just don't work this market enough, and don't want the hassle right now.... maybe in a few years. It's not something you really want to do only once or twice, there is work to make it all happen, at least that's my excuse.

I had a lady in my office once, needed a few million in extra life insurance to cover estate taxes. I passed her onto someone else. I could have written it, maybe, but she immediately sensed it was something different from my core business, which meant I was doomed from the start.

Of course, I did, just today, write a home policy on a house worth $7.5M with a dwelling coverage over $2M. That doesn't make me blink anymore (it does make the underwriters blink though, and ask a few extra questions). I am going back to this client with some additional offerings over time.

Dan

 

[Guest]

"I don't see a "Policy Label""

what is the policy called?

I don't know. It is not my policy. It is not on the statement my friend gave me.

Polices are given product names. Knowing the name can help you find the details (policy provisions) that tell you contractually how the policy is set up. It would be VERY bad for you to offer any advice without knowing what policy you were kicking in the backside... especially if you are considering replacement.... I would ask to see the actual policy itself and go for a bit of a read... then I would call ML customer service and simply ask them how best to solve the problem she has...

Um... you don't get it. This is the second time you've been on my ass about somehow giving advice. This policy owner is not a client of mine. Read the very first post of this thread. She gave me the quarterly report and I told her it is not only outside my license, it is outside my area of expertise.

Here's why.. none of us here know exactly how this contract is set up and advantages/disadvantages it has..for you to give any kind of advice puts you at risk, cause you don't really know, you have a quarterly statement, that's not enough information to advise anybody. Find out more about the product..google it.

You're still riding my ass here. What? Are you the Advice Police? See paragraph above.

Am I correct in seeing all the funds are in a mmarket account? why?
why is the share price 37.519 for a mmarket account? I don't know of any mm accounts that trade for anything other than a dollar.

I don't know any of those answers. If I did I would not be asking here.

Lucy, got some xplainin to do.....

Again, you don't get it. I started this thread to LEARN... not to somehow garner enough free advice... enough to be dangerous... so that maybe I could make a client of this person. You got it 100% wrong.

I'm just curious about how the VUL policies work. I have a simple business selling health care, workplace supps, a little bit of term life and/or a fixed annuity... when I see the need. I really don't have the interest at my age and stage of life to do the heavy lifting necessary to be a full-fledged financial adviser to HNW people. I leave that to younger guys and gals who have more brain cells than I have left. My own adviser is a 26 year old at Edward Jones who lives, eats, and breathes stocks, funds, bonds, and how to integrate them to provide me with a retirement income and avoid the tax man.

So please, stop insinuating that I'm giving bad advice.... because I'm not giving ANY advice to anyone about any of this. Got it?

Sheesh!

Al

 

[LGilmore]

"Is CV a marketing gimmick in VUL? "

gee, I didn't know this was a cry for help......

That's two posts where you are putting down a product you say you know nothing about... yet you know "enough" to bad mouth em.

My point to you as you have a license is be careful what you say to a client as they may act on that advice. I can't imagine you are neutral about these products, then post here in such a negative way.. you can't learn with a closed mind..

That's why I asked about the fishing...it sure seems you are. cause it doesn't sound like asking for help.

 

[Guest]

"Is CV a marketing gimmick in VUL? "

gee, I didn't know this was a cry for help......

It is a question, not a statement. Learn the difference.

That's two posts where you are putting down a product you say you know nothing about... yet you know "enough" to bad mouth em.

I'm actually neutral about the VUL product... mainly because I don't know enough about them to be otherwise. Perhaps these products are your favorites and you have some ax to grind against those whom you think are 'against' them? Well fine. But you have the wrong guy because I'm ignorant about them and know only what Dave F. has posted and what I vaguely remember from insurance school.

My point to you as you have a license is be careful what you say to a client as they may act on that advice.

What is it that you don't get when I tell you again that I'm advising no one... here, there, or anywhere on VULs. You have this mistaken idea that the person who contacted me is getting advice from me. Yet I've told you time and time again I sent her to someone else.

Licensing aside, do you honestly think I have enough information to act in an advisory capacity? Obviously not. So you just think I'm stupid. Well there we might agree... because trying to reason with you in this thread might constitute evidence of stupidity!

I can't imagine you are neutral about these products

I beginning to wonder (maybe fear) what it is that you CAN imagine.

then post here in such a negative way..

Saying "I don't understand" might be intrinsically negative, but not when you put it in context of this thread and this product.

you can't learn with a closed mind..

You can't teach when you don't understand what is being asked.

That's why I asked about the fishing...it sure seems you are.

What seems to be and what is, are to entirely different entities in this case. You don't recognize that.

cause it doesn't sound like asking for help.

But somehow it sounds like I'm giving advice?

Life lesson for you. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

Al

 

[Mr. Bill]

Sorry, Dave, but it wasn't clear from your post you were not giving al a comparison.

What kind of assumptions on the VUL, even after 30 years, the cost of insurance would be tremendous for a man in his 80s

 

[Dave020]

Sorry, Dave, but it wasn't clear from your post you were not giving al a comparison.

What kind of assumptions on the VUL, even after 30 years, the cost of insurance would be tremendous for a man in his 80s

I think this is a good example of the value of a permanent insurance policy for those wishing to carry it very long-term. Cost of insurance for someone in the 80's would likely be astronomical, but if the policy is purchased in the earlier years and held, since premiums are fixed for the life of the contract, you pay a lot more in the early years (against the true insurable premium cost) and a lot less in the later years. I also think $4k per year in premium could be a 50-year-old a $1M VUL.

UL products (I don't work with them anymore) have some amazing premium options you can use. WL and such are fixed premium at age and health for life of the contract. UL and VUL have much greater flexability in those premiums. I remember sitting in a class at MassMutual one time where the instructor was showing us how you can construct a UL policy to target $1 CSV at age 102 and reduce the premium across the board.

For those who work in life insurance, these can be fun and very interesting policies to construct.

AL -

One thing here is that ML sells lots of VUL products, but are not very good at it. They supposedly have "insurance experts" within the brokerage who do that end for the brokers.

I would refer her to an agent with a major player (if you know one) like Mass, NML or NYL to review the policy and see what she can do. It might be in her best interest to replace it and do a 1035 exchange if he can pass underwriting. If not, maybe change the investment positions to try and earn at least as much as the interest to keep the DB level on the policy.