What is your “go to” place for purchasing T65 lists for direct mail?

[Josh]

I didn't write the TOS and I'm not familiar with yours. I'm going to look today and if there are similarities I'll have them changed immediately.

Sounds to me like you lack a certain level of integrity. Why would your TOS literally include provisions my attorneys drafted specifically for me? Liquidated damages plus a per record fine? Seriously?

 

[whatyouwantfinally]

Sounds to me like you lack a certain level of integrity. Why would your TOS literally include provisions my attorneys drafted specifically for me? Liquidated damages plus a per record fine? Seriously?

Mine was done by my developer and, like I said, I have no idea what your TOS are. If there are similarities and I can verify you didn't simply copy mine, I'll be re-writing them myself and updating right away. And while you may be a swell guy, integrity isn't known to be your MO, so let's avoid personal insults.

 

[WinoBlues]

And while you may be a swell guy, integrity isn't known to be your MO, so let's avoid personal insults.

 

[Josh]

Mine was done by my developer and, like I said, I have no idea what your TOS are. If there are similarities and I can verify you didn't simply copy mine, I'll be re-writing them myself and updating right away. And while you may be a swell guy, integrity isn't known to be your MO, so let's avoid personal insults.

Sounds like your developer copied my content and passed it off as his/your own.

Integrity actually is known to be my MO. Would you like to clarify?

 

[whatyouwantfinally]

Sounds like your developer copied my content and passed it off as his/your own.

Integrity actually is known to be my MO. Would you like to clarify?

Again, if that's the case, it'll be dealt with right away.

I'm not interested in bogging down the forum with yet another discussion about your business practices, anyone who is interested either already knows or can find plenty about it on here. This is a forum about senior insurance and the thread is about T65 lists.

 

[Josh]

Again, if that's the case, it'll be dealt with right away.

I'm not interested in bogging down the forum with yet another discussion about your business practices, anyone who is interested either already knows or can find plenty about it on here. This is a forum about senior insurance and the thread is about T65 lists.

Then what exactly did you mean by bringing it up?

Since roughly 2013 I've been selling lists to insurance agents. I've had around 20,000 customers. My reputation was an inspiration for you to make a website to compete with me. You originally came on this forum to tell us "whatyouwantfinally" in reference to knowing about how the lead gen company works. Here we are how many years later and you went from being an "industry lead insider" ready to "finally" tell everyone what they wanted to know. Instead, you have a list site that copied parts of the content from my website and are taking swings at me publicly.

I don't mind it. It's not my favorite part of the business, but I realize that everyone is a critic. One of the things I value about this forum is that generally, if someone wants to take a swing, a response is generally allowed vs censored or quelled like it would be on other platforms.

While I was going through the worst part of my life I handed my business over to a person who at the time was a friend. It appears they did not manage the business consistent with the values and practices established in the years prior, and there were some fairly negative experiences some of my customers had. I've been working aggressively at reconciling all of those and am moving through it as quickly as I can. The service numbers people call now go directly to my cell phone and I have facebook messenger installed so that when people want to message me, we have really nice systems in place for making sure messages get returned and feedback loops exist to help address issues quickly and efficiently.

I also took this as an opportunity to do a ground up rebuild on the platform and converted it from one set of technologies to some newer technologies.

So again, if you would like to take another swing at my integrity, I only ask that you include specific details supporting your aspersions and be prepared to defend them. No honest business person should have to deal with baseless attacks on their character. Similarly, no customer with a legitimate complaint should have their voice silenced. I have opened up multiple channels to get feedback and criticism from customers. I have worked with law enforcement and attorneys to reconcile any outstanding issues that would require them. If there is something more I could be doing, I don't know what it is, but you're welcome to make more suggestions. Just, as a note, all of your suggestions are coming from someone that just admitted to letting their developer copy and paste someone else's work, passed it off as their own, and then criticized the original author of lacking integrity. If you can blame your developer and call it an honest mistake, then surely you don't think I should be held accountable for the misdeeds of another, yeah?

Cheers.

 

[Josh]

Again, if that's the case, it'll be dealt with right away.

If that's the case?

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[whatyouwantfinally]

Then what exactly did you mean by bringing it up?

YOU brought up "integrity". Focus.

Since roughly 2013 I've been selling lists to insurance agents. I've had around 20,000 customers. My reputation was an inspiration for you to make a website to compete with me.

No. When your reputation was good I had no interest in starting a lists site. Your site no longer working and your vanishing was my inspiration.

You originally came on this forum to tell us "whatyouwantfinally" in reference to knowing about how the lead gen company works. Here we are how many years later and you went from being an "industry lead insider" ready to "finally" tell everyone what they wanted to know. Instead, you have a list site that copied parts of the content from my website and are taking swings at me publicly.

You left out about 11 years, during which I became an insurance agent and opened an agency, thus my sticking around.

I don't mind it. It's not my favorite part of the business, but I realize that everyone is a critic. One of the things I value about this forum is that generally, if someone wants to take a swing, a response is generally allowed vs censored or quelled like it would be on other platforms.

Agreed.

While I was going through the worst part of my life I handed my business over to a person who at the time was a friend. It appears they did not manage the business consistent with the values and practices established in the years prior, and there were some fairly negative experiences some of my customers had. I've been working aggressively at reconciling all of those and am moving through it as quickly as I can. The service numbers people call now go directly to my cell phone and I have facebook messenger installed so that when people want to message me, we have really nice systems in place for making sure messages get returned and feedback loops exist to help address issues quickly and efficiently.

Again, YOU want to go there, so fine.

While all this was allegedly happening to you and you were nowhere to be found, you posted online ALL the time on other platforms. You posted screenshots of customers' complaints with snide remarks then immediately deleted your Twitter account when I pointed it out. Someone posted on here that they got you on the phone looking to help and he said you were an "ass" about it. You've made statements on here about why you weren't able to stop re-billing people when your service didn't work that make no sense. You've given reasons you didn't make an attempt to notify customers and return calls/emails that make no sense. And you didn't return to the forum to address it all until you had a new site you wanted people to sign up for.

Your former friend/partner tells a very different story about the dealings between you two, and it looks like your lawsuit against him was dismissed in favor of a pending one he has against you. Who knows what the truth is there, but it doesn't matter, because it's irrelevant.

So again, if you would like to take another swing at my integrity, I only ask that you include specific details supporting your aspersions and be prepared to defend them. No honest business person should have to deal with baseless attacks on their character.

Nothing I said is baseless. I was pretty specific. And I had no interest in bringing up anyone's integrity nor rolling in the mud with you until you did.

QUOTE="Josh, post: 1363471, member: 5191"]Similarly, no customer with a legitimate complaint should have their voice silenced. I have opened up multiple channels to get feedback and criticism from customers. I have worked with law enforcement and attorneys to reconcile any outstanding issues that would require them. If there is something more I could be doing, I don't know what it is, but you're welcome to make more suggestions. Just, as a note, all of your suggestions are coming from someone that just admitted to letting their developer copy and paste someone else's work, passed it off as their own, and then criticized the original author of lacking integrity. If you can blame your developer and call it an honest mistake, then surely you don't think I should be held accountable for the misdeeds of another, yeah?[/QUOTE]

If there weren't so much direct evidence that what you did wasn't an "honest mistake" you'd have a point. The only things I've mentioned or think you deserve blame for are things you yourself did.

 

[Josh]

Your former friend/partner tells a very different story about the dealings between you two, and it looks like your lawsuit against him was dismissed in favor of a pending one he has against you. Who knows what the truth is there, but it doesn't matter, because it's irrelevant.

Those are some very specific details. Since you bring it up:

What was decided in Virginia was that instead of the Virginia court hearing my complaint while a Utah Court was hearing the Utah Complaint, the Virginia court abstained from hearing the issues in favor of the Utah Court. At a hearing last week Mr. Grantham appears to have his ass handed to him and as of today the substance of the Virginia complaint has been refiled as a cross-complaint. The only things that have happened, truly, so far, are that venue and jurisdiction have been established.

Let me ask you this. What has you so interested in this case that you would know those specifics? Here's the thing, I remember the day you came to this forum because it was actually a pretty interesting introduction. The developer I originally hired to develop ListShack is from Alabama so it seems like a strange coincidence, but you were definitely here before I met him so that would have been a very strange connection.

Either way, again, why such fascination with my legal dispute with Wyatt? His attorney actually made the same argument in Utah, effectively, that the Virginia courts had already adjudicated and dismissed the claims. The reality was quite different, in fact, in the order of dismissal, it specifically stated that it was dismissed without prejudice (meaning it could be refiled again) and Mr. Grantham's own attorneys argued that the nexus of facts in the Virginia complaint were so deeply entwined in the facts of the Utah case, that it would be more appropriate for the Utah courts to hear the entirety of the case.

So why the highly biased version of specific facts? It is interesting that I don't believe I can actually find a name attached to your information here or your list business, but you do seem to have an insider track on information that only a very limited number of people have. Do you think I'll find out more about you in discovery?

 

[Josh]

If there weren't so much direct evidence that what you did wasn't an "honest mistake" you'd have a point. The only things I've mentioned or think you deserve blame for are things you yourself did.

Evidence of what exactly? I suspect the evidence you would point to would further reinforce the claims made in my recently filed cross-complaint against Wyatt Grantham et al, but if you'd like to continue to attempt to besmirch my reputation here, let's clear the air.

Also, if you want to add a voter registration file to your site, feel free to message me, I'd be happy to help you add more data sets to your offerings. You might not believe this, but I make most of my money off of helping other people make money.