Case help 200,000+

[TxJohnny]

I just saw an 83 year old who bought a UL as a 73 year old. The agent didn't leave an illustration with the policy -- not surprising considering the COI is already higher than the premium and the Accum is almost zero.

Personally, I'd only sell a GUL or a WL to a client at that age. Anything non-guaranteed is a crap game and the insurance companies are Las Vegas -- they always win, ultimately.

 

[SPUR CITY]

I just saw an 83 year old who bought a UL as a 73 year old. The agent didn't leave an illustration with the policy -- not surprising considering the COI is already higher than the premium and the Accum is almost zero.

Personally, I'd only sell a GUL or a WL to a client at that age. Anything non-guaranteed is a crap game and the insurance companies are Las Vegas -- they always win, ultimately.

I agree. Agent should have set the UL up to have the guaranteed column go to age 100 to achieve the same or desired affect. As we all know not all agents have access to GUL‘s but most will have access to UL’s. They just don’t know how to set them up properly

 

[KCBell73]

I wouldn't sell it unless the payor could fund it to never lapse AND signed off on worst case scenario illustration. And I do annual reviews on my UL policies too. Especially since they are usually my best clients and referrers.
Yes. Many agents set up to pay the minimum for price reasons just to get the initial sale. But, I have better ethics than that.

 

[Mattschmidt]

We have a bunch of traditional life insurance agents at The Insurance Squad that could probably help better than I could, however based on what you said you may want to look at a universal life product to keep premiums down. On bigger cases like this I like to get a client through with their wishes without having to do a paramed because you never know what will pop up. Once they do the blood & urine and the case gets issued then you can always turn around and do the blood & urine if they want to try and beat the offered price. But off the top of my head my suggestion would be:

Foresters Smart UL could go up to $99,999 (NON-MED) (NO PARAMED/NO BLOOD) and target premium would be $508/month to age 100.

But I could have some of the guys on The Squad that are smarter than me help you out if you would like. You can reach me at [email protected]

interesting you'd recommend Foresters Smart UL which does not have ANY guarantees of sorts. Poor form to recommend a non medical product without guarantees

 

[SPUR CITY]

interesting you'd recommend Foresters Smart UL which does not have ANY guarantees of sorts. Poor form to recommend a non medical product without guarantees

You do realize it does have a GUARANTEED minimum interest rate of 3% right?

Since the product has been released it hasn’t paid less than 5.5%

 

[TxJohnny]

You do realize it does have a GUARANTEED minimum interest rate of 3% right?

Since the product has been released it hasn’t paid less than 5.5%

So?

Are you suggesting a 70 year old is going to build such a large Accumulation Value that a couple of extra percentage points in credited interest rate is going to make a meaningful difference in how many years until the planned premium is insufficient? I mean, really?

 

[SPUR CITY]

In 2010, 0.0173% people lived to age 100

Just got off the phone w Foresters.

100K at 5.6% would take her to age 121 and no payments past age 100 is $471/month (5.6%-5.9% is what this product has always ranged EVERY YEAR since it started).

The client is limited on what carriers would take her because of her age, the amount she wants & not wanting a blood and urinalysis. I don’t have a dog in this fight so I didn’t stay up researching what product would be best, that’s why I prefaced everything in a previous post the way I did.

On the guaranteed column of 3%, $471/month would take her to age 84 if this product was to do something it’s never done and hit 3% from now until she died. Granted, the lowest this product has ever performed is almost double that at 5.6%. $550 a month would GUARANTEE her to age 94 assuming the world comes to an end and all of a sudden this product only pays 3% from now until forever. If you want the guaranteed column to take her to age 100 then you would just dump more money into the monthly premium.

What product would you suggest?

 

[TxJohnny]

You act like interest rate is THE mitigating factor in a non-guaranteed UL policy. Don't you find COI -- which is not guaranteed to remain at current projections, and which can increase up to (likely) 2x current, is a much more important consideration?

For instance, the COI spread on an 80 FT (looking 10 years into the policy life) might be something like Current: $5.50 per 1000, per month versus Guaranteed $10.00 per month, per 1000. On a 200K policy that's $4.50 x 200 x 12 = $10,800. Is 2.5% interest on a dwindling cash value going to offset that?

I would not sell a 70 year old a non-GUL. I've seen enough dead/dying UL policies to last a lifetime. I'm familiar with MoO's -- I've sold a lot of them. It looks like AIG is priced better, at least in certain sectors. But pricing, much like interest rates, can be waved as bait while the insured pays for it on the UW classification. I.E., a ST w/ the "lower priced" carrier might qualify for ST+ with another.

In other words, I don't have a recommendation for her situation, as described. I know what I would not do. I'd also feel like if I couldn't convince her to take a paramed exam, then I wouldn't feel I had enough control of her to proceed in her best interests.

 

[SPUR CITY]

You act like interest rate is THE mitigating factor in a non-guaranteed UL policy. Don't you find COI -- which is not guaranteed to remain at current projections, and which can increase up to (likely) 2x current, is a much more important consideration?

For instance, the COI spread on an 80 FT (looking 10 years into the policy life) might be something like Current: $5.50 per 1000, per month versus Guaranteed $10.00 per month, per 1000. On a 200K policy that's $4.50 x 200 x 12 = $10,800. Is 2.5% interest on a dwindling cash value going to offset that?

I would not sell a 70 year old a non-GUL. I've seen enough dead/dying UL policies to last a lifetime. I'm familiar with MoO's -- I've sold a lot of them. It looks like AIG is priced better, at least in certain sectors. But pricing, much like interest rates, can be waved as bait while the insured pays for it on the UW classification. I.E., a ST w/ the "lower priced" carrier might qualify for ST+ with another.

In other words, I don't have a recommendation for her situation, as described. I know what I would not do. I'd also feel like if I couldn't convince her to take a paramed exam, then I wouldn't feel I had enough control of her to proceed in her best interests.

Ok, fair enough, so your suggestion would be to walk away. Sometimes that’s the best option.

 

[TxJohnny]

No. My suggestion would be to get better control. Without control we become like retail clerks, running and fetching. But you know that. One can't hit your numbers without knowing that, I wouldn't think. (or else he's one energetic mofo!)