Help Leaving Symmetry Financial Group SFG!

[Mark10]

Thank you for the info. I've been reading a lot the last few days. I agree with the broad strokes picture you painted.

 

[rousemark]

Not true.

Did not say they were... Only said the thread title gives that impression.

 

[toolbelt]

I do understand what you mean overall, but the product itself is not MLM, it's the organization.

MLM is the product, only the widget or bait used varies.

 

[toolbelt]

It’s all about shades of MLM.

You’ve got groups like WFG, Primerica and PHP that start agents at 25% and make a ton of money selling merchandise and conference tickets.

If you talk to those agents, very few are actually selling policies. Usually just to themselves or friends/family. Sometimes the “agents” aren’t even licensed.

Almost universally, they will be recruiting non-licensed agents with an Amway type of setup.

Then your next step up is Symmetry/Equis/NAA/some FFL agencies.

At least these guys use leads. All leads are resold/rented. Most on this board would consider that unethical. I think it’s fine if you’re told upfront.

At least Symmetry is subsidizing the fresh lead.

These groups are still going to recruit a lot of non-licensed agents with the dreams of building a team and making it big off overrides.

They will onboard the masses, have them buy cheap aged leads and see who has it. Problem is its much more difficult to succeed on aged leads. So the fail out rate is much higher.

Then you will have groups that have attained IMO levels and have smaller agencies underneath them.

Usually they push for agents to have 100+ contracts off the start, have good training and support and encourage agents to purchase fresh leads.

Still a little MLM at this point, but a lighter shade.

Then you’ll have those that are one level down from the top, like the above agencies, but highly discourage team building or, at least, don’t promote it. When they do, it’s only for agents/agencies that have made it above street and are willing to build off a 5-10 point spread, while the top level agency sits fat and happy taking 15-25.

Obviously those are broad strokes and there could be any number of variations, but with insurance resembling a pyramid, no matter how you look at it, it will always lend itself to a MLM model.

Every group takes advantage of that to some degree or another.

In the grand scheme of things, the negative MLM connotation results from the ratio of internal/external revenues, and those revenues aren't just limited to the products or services alone. Sign-up fees, online access subscriptions, marketing/training material purchases, and conference/seminar and convention charges, as well as internal consumption of the products are just a few examples.

 

[Cornelius]

In the grand scheme of things, the negative MLM connotation results from the ratio of internal/external revenues, and those revenues aren't just limited to the products or services alone. Sign-up fees, online access subscriptions, marketing/training material purchases, and conference/seminar and convention charges, as well as internal consumption of the products are just a few examples.

Every business has a cost. No I don't agree with all company fees but

In the grand scheme of things, the negative MLM connotation results from the ratio of internal/external revenues, and those revenues aren't just limited to the products or services alone. Sign-up fees, online access subscriptions, marketing/training material purchases, and conference/seminar and convention charges, as well as internal consumption of the products are just a few examples.

In my opinion the MLM model isn't the issue. The bottom line issue is the compensation and the limitations put on agents who are 1099 independent contractors.

It seems to make the system work the low commissions plus internal consumption are the driving forces but the main key is to get the agents more loyal to the company per hype than to what's in their best interest.

How else can someone think 25% is better than 100%? It's project the family atmosphere until the agent wants to leave and then it becomes business. Make them love the company and looking at leaving can seem like a personal breakup yet in the big picture the companies want people coming and going. Internal consumption and access to warm markets.

As for fees all businesses have fees. Just deal with them at tax time.

 

[toolbelt]

the main key is to get the agents more loyal to the company per hype than to what's in their best interest.

Exaggerated income claims are a key component of MLM, which is why they fought tooth and nail to be exempt from the FTC's "Business Opportunity Rule" which applies to franchises and other work from home opportunities. Had they not, they would have been required to provide fully audited income disclosures. Who would join an MLM if the "Opportunity" meeting began with a slide presentation that revealed 99.7% of those who join will actually lose money when all costs are figured in? Who would join when told the vast majority won't even recoup their sign-up fee amount?

 

[Cornelius]

Exaggerated income claims are a key component of MLM, which is why they fought tooth and nail to be exempt from the FTC's "Business Opportunity Rule" which applies to franchises and other work from home opportunities. Had they not, they would have been required to provide fully audited income disclosures. Who would join an MLM if the "Opportunity" meeting began with a slide presentation that revealed 99.7% of those who join will actually lose money when all costs are figured in? Who would join when told the vast majority won't even recoup their sign-up fee amount?

True but I think it's also that saying it isn't sales it's sharing. It's sales and most people or a good mass of people don't want anything to do with sales.

Also coming in no one really understands compensation. This leg that leg and all that stuff.

 

[toolbelt]

It's sales and most people or a good mass of people don't want anything to do with sales.

MLM doesn't recruit people to sell. They recruit people to buy under the guise of a sale's opportunity. If MLMs were prevented from selling to those they recruit, within two years, the entire industry would cease to exist.

 

[Cornelius]

MLM doesn't recruit people to sell. They recruit people to buy under the guise of a sale's opportunity. If MLMs were prevented from selling to those they recruit, within two years, the entire industry would cease to exist.

True but I think for the most part the MLM system when used with financial service is a different animal. Agents don't have to buy and yess I know about the being product of the product but agents can earn from personal sales.

 

[toolbelt]

Agents don't have to buy

When a monthly online access subscription, builders school, seminar, conference or convention, dvds, and Kiyosaki books are sold as key components to success, only those seeking to fail don't have to buy. That argument would be true only if those who join do so to intentionally lose money.