Burial, Cremation and . . .

[Robert Barney]

No more than an Arab would cease to be an Arab if they converted from Islam to Christianity. Judaism is an ethnic heritage as much as it is a religious tradition.

So clearly you would disagree with LostDollar, who seems to view being a Jew as linked to some sort of core belief system. Of course at this moment we don't know what he thinks that core belief system is, and I look forward to more explanation.

As background, and in an effort to be fully transparent, I am not a Jew. Ethnically I would be best described as a WASP. Raised as a nominal Christian by parents who were not enthusiastic believers (they rarely talked about their beliefs) I was "converted" to Christianity at the age of 19. That occurred over a very short period of what I believe to have been divine revelation. The experience is best described by Jesus as being "born again". You can read what Jesus said to a very religious Jewish teacher here:

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-17 - New International Version

Setting that aside for the moment, I have many good friends who are Jews. From my discussions with those who talk about their Jewish faith and beliefs, I note that Jews are very much like what I have found among Christians, a wide variety of beliefs and I am always interested in learning more about that.

In that regard I sent the following article to a friend of mine who is a Rabbi in Jerusalem. He says he "read it twice" and called me on Sunday and we discussed it. Like me he sees a great divide in belief within Judaism, and was VERY sympathetic and supportive of what this lady had to say.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/01/the_new_jewish_exodus.html

 

[rousemark]

So clearly you would disagree with LostDollar, who seems to view being a Jew as linked to some sort of core belief system. Of course at this moment we don't know what he thinks that core belief system is, and I look forward to more explanation.

As background, and in an effort to be fully transparent, I am not a Jew. Ethnically I would be best described as a WASP. Raised as a nominal Christian by parents who were not enthusiastic believers (they rarely talked about their beliefs) I was "converted" to Christianity at the age of 19. That occurred over a very short period of what I believe to have been divine revelation. The experience is best described by Jesus as being "born again". You can read what Jesus said to a very religious Jewish teacher here:

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-17 - New International Version

Setting that aside for the moment, I have many good friends who are Jews. From my discussions with those who talk about their Jewish faith and beliefs, I note that Jews are very much like what I have found among Christians, a wide variety of beliefs and I am always interested in learning more about that.

In that regard I sent the following article to a friend of mine who is a Rabbi in Jerusalem. He says he "read it twice" and called me on Sunday and we discussed it. Like me he sees a great divide in belief within Judaism, and was VERY sympathetic and supportive of what this lady had to say.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/01/the_new_jewish_exodus.html

The Apostle Paul was a Christian and yet he did not lose his identity as a Jew.. Philippians 3:4-6. There is a difference in being a follower of Judaism and being born of Jewish heritage. Unfortunately the term Jew is used to apply to both which confuses the issue.

 

[Robert Barney]

The Apostle Paul was a Christian and yet he did not lose his identity as a Jew.. Philippians 3:4-6. There is a difference in being a follower of Judaism and being born of Jewish heritage. Unfortunately the term Jew is used to apply to both which confuses the issue.

Jesus was a Jew. The early followers of Christ were ALL Jews. EVERY individual who wrote ANY part of the Christian New Testament was a Jew. EVERY follower of Christ, for the first 10 years of the Christian church, was a Jew.

It took 10 years before Gentiles became involved. For the first 10 years the term "christian" was not even used to describe this new Jewish sect, and the term "christian" was first concocted by those who were not followers of Christ and it was used to describe the new sect in a derogatory way (it means "little Christs").

I certainly do NOT disagree with you that Jews stop being Jews when they accept Jesus (Yeshua) as Messiah. But what do other Jews believe about Jews who accept Yeshua?

For example, I would argue that people like Biden and Pelosi are NOT Catholics, their views are far too contrary to Catholic belief. But who gives a shiite what I think about it, it's what other Catholics think about it. I'm not Catholic and so I am not part of the group. It really is not for me to say who is considered part of the group or not.

 

[shonceman]

Jesus was a Jew. The early followers of Christ were ALL Jews. EVERY individual who wrote ANY part of the Christian New Testament was a Jew. EVERY follower of Christ, for the first 10 years of the Christian church, was a Jew.

It took 10 years before Gentiles became involved. For the first 10 years the term "christian" was not even used to describe this new Jewish sect, and the term "christian" was first concocted by those who were not followers of Christ and it was used to describe the new sect in a derogatory way (it means "little Christs").

I certainly do NOT disagree with you that Jews stop being Jews when they accept Jesus (Yeshua) as Messiah. But what do other Jews believe about Jews who accept Yeshua?

For example, I would argue that people like Biden and Pelosi are NOT Catholics, their views are far too contrary to Catholic belief. But who gives a shiite what I think about it, it's what other Catholics think about it. I'm not Catholic and so I am not part of the group. It really is not for me to say who is considered part of the group or not.

Some discussion of this topic from Dr. Michael Brown, a Messianic Jewish theologian and apologist:
https://www.jewishvoice.org/learn/general-objections

 

[Life Hawk]

EVERY follower of Christ, for the first 10 years of the Christian church, was a Jew.

You need to reinforce this with evidence. I believe you went a bit far in this statement.

Stories like the centurion whose faith was far greater than any Jew Christ had seen in all of Israel, seem to suggest other wise.

 

[Robert Barney]

You need to reinforce this with evidence. I believe you went a bit far in this statement.

Stories like the centurion whose faith was far greater than any Jew Christ had seen in all of Israel, seem to suggest other wise.

I rely on Acts 10 and 11. This story is purported to be 10 years after the ascension of Jesus. Here is what it says at the beginning of Acts 11:

Now the apostles and the brothers and sisters who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, the Jewish believers took issue with him, saying, “You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.” But Peter began and explained at length...

Once again, I am of the understanding that this was 10 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. While there may have been Gentile followers and converts, they were NOT considered by the Jews (remember, ALL the disciples were Jews) to be part of their group.

 

[toolbelt]

I once read a phrase somewhere "Judge not, yest ye be judged". The source slips my mind.

 

[Robert Barney]

I once read a phrase somewhere "Judge not, yest ye be judged". The source slips my mind.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:1-5 - New American Standard Bible

7 “Do not judge, so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and look, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye!​

Who do you think Jesus was talking to?

Consider more about judging here:

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: judge

 

[Life Hawk]

For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

This is one of the most misunderstood verses in the bible.

If scripture becomes your method of judging, wouldn't it stand for fact that you will be judged according to the scriptures? The danger of judging is not the fact you judge, but by which measurement you choose to judge by.

ALL the disciples were Jews

Actually, all the apostles where Jews. However; Christ had many followers who would be considered disciples that were not Jews.

I think we see things more alike than not. But that all makes for good discussion.

 

[Robert Barney]

Christ had many followers who would be considered disciples that were not Jews.

And which followers would those be? I assume you are referring to when he actually was physically present on the earth.

The opening up of the church to Gentiles was a HUGE debate among the disciples, that came to a head with the first major council of the church in Acts 15. The debate at that time was whether Gentiles who came to Christ would have to become Jews in order to be accepted into the church (yes, NOT kidding). For all the details, read here:

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 15 - New American Standard Bible