Had my meeting - think I'm gonna have to pass

[Crabcake Johnny]

Had my meeting today to pitch a MA HMO to dual-eligibles and I think after a lot of thought I'm gonna have to pass. Reasons?

1) At $300 for an app it's around 2 hours total "door step to door step" including my presentation and application. I make about $1,000 per health app so actually any time devoted to MA is a loss.

2) The pitch, as presented to me, is too slick for my ethical standards. It was specifically stated today to make sure they know they are not coming off Medicaid. That is false. They are indeed coming off Medicaid and it's being replaced with the MA plan. Right now there's no network to consider. Now they will have to be in the HMO network to receive care. Is that an issue? Personally, no - it's not. Would it be a "perceived" issue if discussed? Absolutely, which is why it's not openly discussed. Basically, the gist was "get the app." The benefits are far more rich on the MA plan then they get with Medicaid. Quite impressive actually. The tone was "the ends justify the means" - meaning, anything it takes within reason to get the app, just get the app and they're better off. Whether or not they are better off is irrelevant. What is relevant is they fully understand exactly what's going on and choose to make the switch. If presented in that fashion I see a 10% closing ratio. I really want to qualify the post. They by no means told anyone to lie or say anything deceptive. It's just far too "wow...is that a picture of you when you were younger!!!" of a presentation for me.

3) I'm not giving those clowns my credit card number to hit my card upfront for 10 leads X $25 = $250. I pulled on of the managers aside and told him I'd sign the authorization form and just front me the 10 leads first, I run them then hit my card. He said no. I have a feeling I know why.

4) Although I very much believe this would be a feeding frenzy during open enrollment since these things seem to blow away supp plans, it's also seeing seniors who have money and live in nice areas. However, for Medicaid patients they (and correct me if I'm wrong) cannot own a house and make less than $10,000 a year? I know exactly what kind of areas I'd be in and have to consider I'm married with a son.

 

[midwestbroker]

Sounds like some of the marketing outfits that are here in Kansas City.

From what you have said they have a good product. Maybe you just need to kind another IMO.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Maybe. I don't think that's the issue. I think with a correct presentation you'll get too many "I need to think about it" roadblocks.

Makes for an interesting ethical discussion since they are FAR better off on the MA HMO. It offers many more features than Medicaid and it's a shame. I think it's a slam dunk for anyone who's currently not thrilled with Medicaid. I'm not sure I can afford to waste my time on appointments to find out how many that is.

Look, if you steal the wallet from a senior, put $20 in it and hand it back to him, should he call the police?

 

[senior-advisor-indiana]

Look, if you steal the wallet from a senior, put $20 in it and hand it back to him, should he call the police?

It depends on how long you kept the wallet and how nice you were about stealing it

So are you saying the plan is only $20 richer than medicaid? lol

 

[senior-advisor-indiana]

Maybe you should just put out flyers in the projects instead of buying leads. That way you can qualify them over the phone and not waste as much time. Or you could have a medicaid seminar in the hood. Just have a cook out with BBQ ribs and chicken and a bunch of colt 45's.

 

[policy doctor]

Never

 

[BKrocko]

Sounds like some of the marketing outfits that are here in Kansas City.


That's the problem I have with entering into the senior market. I did a very short stint in that area prior to deciding on MM health. The roadblocks are incredible - having to be certified by each company (that's a good thing = knowing their product) but only at their training convenience (about twice/yr), and then being re-certified each year - again at their slim convenience.

CMS seems to do everything in their power to get rid of the agent.

Can you be independent? It appears that you have to contract through an IMO.

Are there any "good" IMO's/FMO's? From what I can tell, they are mostly a den of thieves. Seems like none of them are willing to release you from a contract and I think most of their profit comes from selling useless "leads". These guys are true pigs - "sign here and give me your money sucker".

The senior market is so full of "here today, gone tomorrow" agents that the "good guys" hardly stand a chance. The damage has been done and I'm not sure it can be un-done.

I still think med sup's can be offered/sold with integrity and allow you to remain independent. Seems like a great addition to the portfolio.

I have read very few posts where anyone has much good to say about the IMO's. Far and few between. Who are the good ones?

Sorry it didn't add up JP, glad you were "thinking". How many people were there? Did anyone else question anything? How did the management handle it - the usual tactic is to belittle the person asking probing questions. I'll bet that the management background included Mega/UGA/NAA etc. type of personalities.

God help the seniors, the wolves are watching the hen house.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

About 10 people were there and the guys running it all could have been division managers for Mega. That was the attitude - heart in the right place, but wrong way of going about it.

 

[midwestbroker]

When it comes to Medicare Advantage plans in the Metro markets, there are 2 ways to go IMHO

1. Captive
2. With a honest IMO that provides lots of leads

The major carriers (Humana and Coventry here in KC) have huge marketing budgets and all hit the seniors about the same time. Plus they have their own sales force to answer the calls and replies. A broker mail piece will get lost in the mix of insurance carrier mail pieces.

If you contract direct, from what I understand, you have to be a delegated agent (semi-captive). You may get some leads from the carrier but that is all you can sell (that carrier).

Now finding that IMO is what every other agent is trying to do.

 

[BKrocko]

I thought someone suggested starting a thread to share thoughts and experiences that they have had pertaining to IMO's. The good, the bad and the ugly. I think that would prove to be an invaluable piece of information for people looking to get involved in the senior market.

The only experience I had was about 1 1/2 years ago when the switch began. I contracted through an IMO called "The Assurant Group" and the only product I was introduced to was SecureHorizons from PacifiCare (I never had any problem with the product). I stand by my word when I say to stay away from that IMO. Every single agent I worked with at that time got screwed in one way or another by them (mostly on lead costs as well as missing commission). There were about 9 or 10 of us working it at that time - most of us ended up somehow owing them money!! The State Director quit after they charged him thousands for unreturned leads. They charged us for the OLD leads (most were postmarked 8 or more months old), then charged $20 or $25/lead if you did not RETURN the leads! Most did not know anything about having to return the leads and threw them away after using them. (I guess they wanted to sell them again to new agents) I was lucky and had all of mine to return. Go figure. That is when I made the decision to focus on MM health.

Anyway, I understand the liability associated with putting anything in writing about a company - but it seems like that type of thread would help people steer clear of trouble. Just be careful how you write the review of the IMO. SAI, this is your area of expertise - the stage is yours. Thoughts?

I am not in the senior market so everything I know about it has just been stated. I would however be interested in adding it to my portfolio in the distant future.