Speaking of Thad Sipple what happened to him? Those Jane and Steve tm leads were terrible but as i recall about $4 each .I remember he disappeared for a yr and came back then disappeared totally . Haven't heard about him since 2019 or so .Only telemarketing outfit that really made it to this day is lead Hero's with Glen Shelton . But they pivoted to T-65 telemarketing leads . I look back to 2012-14 and i could never have envisioned the change in leads so great.Back then 80% of leads were Direct mail and 20% TM. Today in fe straight TM leads almost 0%. If i had to guess I'd say the breakdown is 20% direct mail , 70% social media and 10% direct transfer type leads . With mail rate increase last week the cheapest self mailing is about $580-$600 a 1000. I remember paying $320 a 1000 back in 2014 . We got rate increases coming in Jan and July both 2026 and 27. Thats 4 more coming next 2 years. We'll easily be at $730 to $750 a 1000 by July 2027 . I talked to a well known direct mail vendor recently and they think direct mail won't be feasible in 3 plus years . Much of the question is also few agents will want to pay that .I think he originally started under Thad Sipple. He's been in the group chat with Jeff Root not under him.