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You’re correct it’s a fixed dollar amount . But that fixed override let’s says $250 an app is based on doing x amount of apps . So it is based on volume in reality . But the new rules say you can’t pay an overide on any enrollment vol . But we know the ga and Ga do get paid overrides per enrollment . We know there all making overrides per app . Your just playing with the wording . That’s like saying all these face to face agents are marking the scope of appointment the same day saying the client approached them that day . All this is called getting around the rules . What kind of business model is this , I sell a June 1st mapd I make $179. The fmo gets up to $250 on that same trade . Thats 130% override . Regardless if the carrier can legally pay that override there going to cut the tar out of that . Thats a big fat target for carriers to cut big cost
. How much fat and profit have these IMO’s and down lines been making ? An Ifg downline is taking 200 top agents to the carribean for 4 nights .Thats at least $600k . I’m figuring they made $10 mil in overrides the last yr . Fmo’s wont go away by any means . They simply make less and stack the loa model . Many do that now . If the overrides stay the same great . Good agents will still get there marketing money . Instead of being paid or co-oped by the carrier to either the agent or fmo . The fmo will simply pay it all out of his overrides . He can structure it like an loa employee payment
I'm playing with the words... or interpreting them, and arguing their meaning, isnt this what lawyers do? Words and their meaning are important. I bet the lawyers do it better than me, and I put faith in the fact that they will.
The override levels aren't just on volume, but a combination of downline agents and/or volume. You can't get overrides just on volume, you have to have a downline, and typically, there is an expectation such as 5 downline, to get one level over street. Now, there also has to be production coming in from the downline. Some carriers purged hierarchies in recent years, where agents were trying to manipulate it... appointing their spouse, brother, sibling... who weren't actually producing, to get bumped up a level.
I believe there is room to bump up a level without "xx" amount of downline agents, if there is steady production from the downline. It shouldn't be completely ignore that downline agents do need assistance, guidance, in various ways. Uplines dont really get paid for that, outside of overrides.
If you have ever trained an new agent, they typically need a lot more guidance in the early days, and the sales are coming in a lot slower... meaning a lot of work, not a lot of payment for said work. Sometimes they dont make it at all, a lot of training and guidance, and no reward. Sometimes they need less guidance, and they take off quickly.
Now about that 250 override, not all carriers do that, but some do, and so, there you do see the "steering" issue CMS has.
In my limited window of personal exposure, I have noticed in my book of business, that has been approached by telemarketers in the last couple months, the clients ive lost, are being switched to one of those carriers who pays the full override even for a like plan change, which is also a carrier who was dolling out marketing dollars, and is said to "axing" the agent reward program. It's to be expected, I suppose. Some of these call centers are trying to get all they can before the stream of money is shut off.
There is a lot of money being made in overrides, it was just a matter of time before CMS did a double take. Perhaps the MA overrides should more closely resemble medigap overrides, in dollar values.... 0.5- 4% or so... that isnt nearly as fat as MA, and would even the playing field
Anybody around when we use to get paid 400 for MA enrollment and as long as they stayed on plan for 3 month we kept full commish.There was a lot of churning so that is why they changed the rules about getting full charge back if enrolled less than 4 months and also why they starting paying renewals back in 2008.
I know of agents who were top producers in north florida for the UHC DSNP plan in 2023 which is still arguably the best plan for dsnp in this area in 2024 and this year they didn't write hardly anything for UHC but were top producers for Florida Blue -Not because it is a better plan but because they are getting an extra 200.00 or more from the FMO for Florida Blue business.This is exactly what CMS is trying to curtail.I am not sure why there is so much fear out there about agents getting commissions slashed because if anything they can pay us more now because of the savings from lowering the cost of distribution.
Yeah that was pretty dumb to advance commissions annual ( not even pro rated) with no charge back after 3 month.What were they thinking?There were a lot of agent "helpers" out there helping their clients change plans every 3 months.lolI remember a little from those days. I sold a few MA's end of '08... I remember they weren't very good, but the renewals were already part of it. I always understood the renewal were payment for servicing the clients, like other insurance products.
Some organizations do that now with greatly reduced comp . No chargebacks after 3 months . I put a hurting on some chargebacks on call centers this month . I should end the month with 45-50 apps and 90% of those are call center replacements.Yeah that was pretty dumb to advance commissions annual ( not even pro rated) with no charge back after 3 month.What were they thinking?There were a lot of agent "helpers" out there helping their clients change plans every 3 months.lol
That's not true of every carrier. Some carriers pay on production to a solo agent who is appointed direct. And a lot of FMO's (like the one I work for) doesn't require any downlines to pay agents.You can't get overrides just on volume, you have to have a downline, and typically, there is an expectation such as 5 downline, to get one level over street.
Correct . Most carriers you need no down line to get a Ga contract . That allows you to override your own business .Thats obviously getting paid on enrollments and will no longer be allowed in 25 . Some agency’s that were recruiting and had a big book and were overriding their own business will no longer get overrides on that . Irregardless of if some type of fee is allowed going forward the question becomes what fee will they pay an fmo going forward . I’m willing to say 90% it will be less and possibly substantially less than before . We’re now near the 2 month mark since cms released this and still no word from carriers . I’m willing to bet by mid June we’ll see guidance from carriers. The perfect storm is hitting mapd in 25 with greatly increased claims combined with the part D chaos which hit carriers hard .That's not true of every carrier. Some carriers pay on production to a solo agent who is appointed direct. And a lot of FMO's (like the one I work for) doesn't require any downlines to pay agents.
I think around sept 10th is roll out, no one wants to go 1st,Correct . Most carriers you need no down line to get a Ga contract . That allows you to override your own business .Thats obviously getting paid on enrollments and will no longer be allowed in 25 . Some agency’s that were recruiting and had a big book and were overriding their own business will no longer get overrides on that . Irregardless of if some type of fee is allowed going forward the question becomes what fee will they pay an fmo going forward . I’m willing to say 90% it will be less and possibly substantially less than before . We’re now near the 2 month mark since cms released this and still no word from carriers . I’m willing to bet by mid June we’ll see guidance from carriers. The perfect storm is hitting mapd in 25 with greatly increased claims combined with the part D chaos which hit carriers hard .
Rollout for Humana mid August regional told me .Nobody wants to be first as anyone who shows their cards first another carrier can run back and change their plans. Suprisingly i believe devoteds is mid June . Devoted has no shareholders to please so they could be the huge winner in 2025.I think around sept 10th is roll out, no one wants to go 1st,
