Just how High Can Contracts Go??

[Newby]

I've simply been talking about agents that are in or associated with your hierarchy, not new agents who are contacting you directly. I agree that they should clearly know what you offer. You don't have to post it on your website for that to happen either. If you do, then there's a chance you are stepping on your own downline agencies. That's all I'm saying.

I do apologize that I may not be getting my point across but I'm thinking I'm pretty clear. What part of what I'm saying are you not understanding?

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When it comes to agents who are direct to us, not under one of our agencies, we do. Not one of our direct agents have below street with us. That is a fact. So, now you do know at least one. I can't swear by it, but I'm pretty sure FEX doesn't put their direct agents on anything below street either.

Todd I'm not understanding you at all. If an agent wants to come to Todd King agency he should be able to easily figure out what commission he gets.

If he goes to Joe Smith agency he finds out what Joe Smith gives. It doesn't matter if Joe Smith is contracted under Todd King. This agent isn't contracting with Todd King if he goes with Joe Smith. The fact that Todd and Joe are connected doesn't really affect the agent.

So my point is that todd should make it easy for agents to know what they get with him. Joe should make it easy for agents to know what they get with him. Newby makes it easy to see what they get with him, etc.

Uplines and downlines shouldn't affect it at all. If an agency penalizes his prospective agents because he is worried about a down line getting mad he needs to either get better down lines that offer a value to the agent. Or if you have down lines that are not adding value to the agents and are there just to recruit, you should not recruit direct agents.

It's just like us with EFES. We have RNA and Americo under EFES. But that doesn't mean we operate exactly like EFES. We offer what we offer and they offer what they offer. I've had agents move from EFES to us. And I've had agents move from us to them. It doesn't matter that there is a connection on our end. The agents either like what we offer better or they like what EFES offers better.

I never felt like EFES was stealing agents from their down line. Every agency is different. And some agents will like one over another. But if they can't get straight answers to the most basic question about commission levels...how can that be a good thing? It isn't.

 

[Todd King]

Todd I'm not understanding you at all. If an agent wants to come to Todd King agency he should be able to easily figure out what commission he gets.

If he goes to Joe Smith agency he finds out what Joe Smith gives. It doesn't matter if Joe Smith is contracted under Todd King. This agent isn't contracting with Todd King if he goes with Joe Smith. The fact that Todd and Joe are connected doesn't really affect the agent.

So my point is that todd should make it easy for agents to know what they get with him. Joe should make it easy for agents to know what they get with him. Newby makes it easy to see what they get with him, etc.

Uplines and downlines shouldn't affect it at all. If an agency penalizes his prospective agents because he is worried about a down line getting mad he needs to either get better down lines that offer a value to the agent. Or if you have down lines that are not adding value to the agents and are there just to recruit, you should not recruit direct agents.

It's just like us with EFES. We have RNA and Americo under EFES. But that doesn't mean we operate exactly like EFES. We offer what we offer and they offer what they offer. I've had agents move from EFES to us. And I've had agents move from us to them. It doesn't matter that there is a connection on our end. The agents either like what we offer better or they like what EFES offers better.

I never felt like EFES was stealing agents from their down line. Every agency is different. And some agents will like one over another. But if they can't get straight answers to the most basic question about commission levels...how can that be a good thing? It isn't.

In the above bolded, that is where our disconnect is. If Joe Smith has an agency under us, and then comes along new agent looking at both of us, then fine...game on. However, if that agent is already with Joe Smith and he comes to me, he's going to be sent right back to Joe Smith. That's just the right thing to do.

Now, if I start touting what high commission levels he can get with us (maybe Joe's contract isn't high enough yet to be able to offer him street level and still make a profit to help run his agency), then I'm in the wrong. At that point I may as well start calling all of Joe's agents and start recruiting them. Of course, I would never do that. This is the situation and the exception to the rule that I'm talking about.

I can't protect my downline agencies from other recruiters, but I can damned sure protect them from us. That's part of my job as their upline. I'm pretty sure my agencies expect it from me just like I expect the same courtesy from anyone we have to run contracts through.

We also run our RNA contract through EFES. If I ever found out that EFES promised one of my agents (knowing it's my agent) a higher RNA contract if they would just move it direct to them from me, I can promise you that someone at EFES is carrying an ass whoopin! This isn't really a fair comparison though because we both give our agents 120% for RNA, which is the highest they can go without proof of production and commitment, but you get my point.

 

[rousemark]

In the above bolded, that is where our disconnect is. If Joe Smith has an agency under us, and then comes along new agent looking at both of us, then fine...game on. However, if that agent is already with Joe Smith and he comes to me, he's going to be sent right back to Joe Smith. That's just the right thing to do.

Now, if I start touting what high commission levels he can get with us (maybe Joe's contract isn't high enough yet to be able to offer him street level and still make a profit to help run his agency), then I'm in the wrong. At that point I may as well start calling all of Joe's agents and start recruiting them. Of course, I would never do that. This is the situation and the exception to the rule that I'm talking about.

I can't protect my downline agencies from other recruiters, but I can damned sure protect them from us. That's part of my job as their upline. I'm pretty sure my agencies expect it from me just like I expect the same courtesy from anyone we have to run contracts through.

We also run our RNA contract through EFES. If I ever found out that EFES promised one of my agents (knowing it's my agent) a higher RNA contract if they would just move it direct to them from me, I can promise you that someone at EFES is carrying an ass whoopin! This isn't really a fair comparison though because we both give our agents 120% for RNA, which is the highest they can go without proof of production and commitment, but you get my point.

Also, if an IMO is running both a captive agency and and independent brokerage, he is going to have problems with his captive agents when they find he is advertising higher levels for the independents.. It won't matter to them that he may be subsidizing their leads, furnishing them an office, etc. All they will see is the IMO is giving that guy down the street 120% and he is only paying me 90%.. Yet, on the other hand, he will not have much luck recruiting them if he advertising that he pays the 90% commission rate the captives get. It would seem the only way a person can advertise the rates successfully is if they just have one channel.

 

[Newby]

Also, if an IMO is running both a captive agency and and independent brokerage, he is going to have problems with his captive agents when they find he is advertising higher levels for the independents.. It won't matter to them that he may be subsidizing their leads, furnishing them an office, etc. All they will see is the IMO is giving that guy down the street 120% and he is only paying me 90%.. Yet, on the other hand, he will not have much luck recruiting them if he advertising that he pays the 90% commission rate the captives get. It would seem the only way a person can advertise the rates successfully is if they just have one channel.

They wouldn't all have to be at the same commission level. Both options would just have to be worth the level and both should be attractive to different people.

If the captive gave office space, hands on training, and other perks no one would think that wasn't worth 10 points lower commissions IF the agent wants those perks. But if the agency priced it 50 points lower, way fewer would see the value. So somewhere between 10 and 50 points would be the realistic value. And if the agents know both options going in and choose one being fully aware of their choices it's completely fair.

But when agencies try to hide the information from the agents and just choose one for them and slant everything into the agencies favor because the agent is naïve and doesn't know what information to gather prior to signing up, that's where Agents get screwed.

 

[rousemark]

They wouldn't all have to be at the same commission level. Both options would just have to be worth the level and both should be attractive to different people.

If the captive gave office space, hands on training, and other perks no one would think that wasn't worth 10 points lower commissions IF the agent wants those perks. But if the agency priced it 50 points lower, way fewer would see the value. So somewhere between 10 and 50 points would be the realistic value. And if the agents know both options going in and choose one being fully aware of their choices it's completely fair.

But when agencies try to hide the information from the agents and just choose one for them and slant everything into the agencies favor because the agent is naïve and doesn't know what information to gather prior to signing up, that's where Agents get screwed.

You are counting on the majority of agents being sensible, mature and rational...Ain't gonna happen! ..

 

[Biggin]

I don't know..... maybe I'm just crazy but I think it's the agent's fault if he gets a lower contract. If he doesn't know the industry maybe that's what he deserves. I found and followed this forum for about a year before I got my license. If I ever took a lower than "street" contract is was for something of value. I never even considered LH or others like them because I knew that they were just cannon fodder for the managers.

 

[ExProgrammer]

I don't know..... maybe I'm just crazy but I think it's the agent's fault if he gets a lower contract. If he doesn't know the industry maybe that's what he deserves. I found and followed this forum for about a year before I got my license. If I ever took a lower than "street" contract is was for something of value. I never even considered LH or others like them because I knew that they were just cannon fodder for the managers.

Many are not fortunate enough to find the forums before starting under less than optimal circumstances.

 

[HoosierLife]

Many are not fortunate enough to find the forums before starting under less than optimal circumstances.

And believe it or not, many have found the forums and because of its caustic nature have decided to not participate and join up with other agencies knowing that they are not getting street off the start.

You'd be surprised how many people willingly give up a few points to have someone that will answer the phone, offer some hand holding etc.

On topic, I do believe it is important for agencies to be up front and honest about what comp they offer along with how they can move up. It surprises me how many agents are excited about signing up and we have not even discussed comp levels.

That does make it easy for shady uplines to take advantage of unsuspecting agents. I think that is Scott's point.

 

[Biggin]

Many are not fortunate enough to find the forums before starting under less than optimal circumstances.

O brother. "Fortunate"? To use a quote from my father, "you can crap in one hand and be fortunate in the other and see which one fills up faster". Most people hate this but, every agent gets the contract they deserve. If you are not ambitious or CURIOUS enough to find out what you could get, you get what you deserve. It's not anyone else's fault but your own. Fortunate? Fortune smiles on the bold.

 

[jdeasy]

And believe it or not, many have found the forums and because of its caustic nature have decided to not participate and join up with other agencies knowing that they are not getting street off the start.

You'd be surprised how many people willingly give up a few points to have someone that will answer the phone, offer some hand holding etc.

On topic, I do believe it is important for agencies to be up front and honest about what comp they offer along with how they can move up. It surprises me how many agents are excited about signing up and we have not even discussed comp levels.

That does make it easy for shady uplines to take advantage of unsuspecting agents. I think that is Scott's point.

I wish I had found this forum before I got into insurance. Or something like it. I don't think this forum existed back then.

Any agent that can't handle this forum is going to have a hard time in the real world.

I found this forum because I was researching some medicare stuff that a FOS manager was telling me. I didn't know very much about medicare but what he was saying didn't ring true. Fortunately I found Frank Statsny and was set straight.

And everything that manager had told me was incorrect.